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General DiscussionHidden Pool / Shadow Pool is real

Hidden Pool / Shadow Pool is real in General Discussion
Kowareta

    lose streak after single draft:
    https://www.dotabuff.com/players/199912858/matches?enhance=overview&page=5
    just a fucking win streak after single draft next to it
    https://www.dotabuff.com/players/199912858/matches?enhance=overview&page=4

    hello??? how can u even be so fucking biased, jesus fucking christ.
    u literally had a winstreak on your ranked games after lp just next to a lose streak after lp in period of 4 fucking days, only 4 days!!!!!
    how can someone be so blind and biased?????

    anathema

      I have many hours in the game and some heroes I could easily spam to get out of low mmr if that was my goal. I don't need to blame anyone. I can just raise my score and then play TA or Slark for example.

      But the poi t of this discussion is that I think that if you get the perfect storm of reports for bad gameplay you really can end up in a situation where the MM puts you with griefers almost every game

      Kowareta

        still not giving a link to his account and talks :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

        if u put your face and story of your life on condom boxes, u can be millionaire, stop wasting your time here for nothing and use your chance

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          Why are you so triggered btw
          Anyway if a person who's been climbing or staying stable for months drops 1-1.5k mmr in a couple weeks there is nothing to prove, something changed drastically in the matchmaking. Simple as that. I saw it first hand.

          Blood Prince.

            Talking to me about low behaviour score, losing games and game patterns coz of some shadow pool bullshit omegalul. two years ago had constant abandons and loses thanks to horrible electricity problems, went as low as 198 mmr after Caliberating at 924 for the first time ever. There was always some kinda wall after 900 mmr for a long time, never being able to climb higher than that. If I fucking blamed some kind of hidden mmr assassinating traps in this game I'd never have climbed in this game ever again. So if you're still planning to spend endless hours and endless grinding time on this stupid game step up your game and get better and start climbing instead of blaming something for your loses. If you were better than those in your bracket you'll climb and you won't be whining even when pitted with people who are horrible. The shadow pool mechanics if it ever existed should work on both your team and your enemies if it's somehow based on some kinda hidden behaviour score. So how is your team magically losing when enemy team is doing better? Oh wait it's Gaben rigging your games. I can't imagine how much work the valve devs put in the game to make a sufferable experience for some people!

            Kowareta

              Anyway if a person who's been climbing or staying stable for months drops 1-1.5k mmr in a couple weeks there is nothing to prove, something changed drastically in the matchmaking. Simple as that. I saw it first hand.

              cool story. so matchmaking system is forcing ppl to lose in your opinion, if u be on winning side and climb to X mmr from Y u earned that on your own, but if u get back to the Y cause matchmaker puts u in losing side nowadays, its matchmaker fault??? :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

              why im triggered??? cause i just found what i mentioned in less than 1 minute and you are barking on your feed for months about it. cause u are a deluded blind fuck who opens your mouth nonstop with your only for surviving 40 IQ.
              i just dont get it what else gonna happen for you to realize u are nothing more than stupid and AT LEAST shutting your mouth here.

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              GOT GUAP AND I'M GWAPO

                Winning actually so ez

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                  Wow people don't actually understand shit about what I wrote

                  Kowareta

                    :)))
                    indeed, you are the only 5HEAD here.

                    as long as i remember, in my journey from 900 mmr to 6k, i only climbed past certain mmrs in 1-2 week with like +65% winrate and stuck for 2-3 months with 50-51% winrate. i think its natural to lose/gain mmr in short period of time :)

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                      But it's not normal to drop more than 1k in a bracket one has stayed in for months and not being able to even break even at 600-700 mmr lower but just drop with the most dogshit games and teammates one can possibly imagine. If you've never gone through it then you'll never know it, same thing when I was trying to explain behavior score years ago. Who cares if people believe it or not.
                      Uh I missed the insults lmao, by people I mean the others. You instead are a worthless pathetic animal who would do the world a favor if he drank bleach and died

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                      Kowareta

                        if i want to simplify it, there are 3 major scenarios that can happen in your games
                        1.matching with bad players against good enemies
                        2.matching with good players against bad enemies
                        3.having 50-50 balance game

                        now imagine u playing 1k games of dota. so if the matchmaker act random, there gonna be 33% chance of seeing one of those possibilities in your games.

                        now see the big picture, imagine a random seq consisting only 1,2 and 3. try to slice the seq to portions, in some portions the majority is 1, some portions 2, some 3, some is twisted and u have almost equal amount of 1,2 and 3s.

                        now consider you are a better player than your mmr bracket, not like smurfs just a bit better
                        u have hard times winning the 1s, u win 2s like an ez, u win most of the 3s.
                        so for a better player he only climbs when he get streak of 2s and streak of 3s. which gonna happen in very short amount of time like 2-3 weeks. in the rest of 1k games eg 2-3 months he seems to stuck or climb very slowly.

                        same logic goes with a slightly bad player, he seems to be fine and then suddenly when streak of 1 and 3s happen he lose mmr like crazy.

                        its just shows how random matchmaking is, and random is always fair!!!!

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                        Kowareta

                          But it's not normal to drop more than 1k in a bracket one has stayed in for months and not being able to even break even at 600-700 mmr lower but just drop with the most dogshit games and teammates one can possibly imagine. If you've never gone through it then you'll never know it,

                          every body who played this game for fair amount of time experienced it. i just explained it in the comment above, if u cant get what i mean well u are either uneducated or very dumb. nothing i can do about it, but u can shut the fuck up cause every thing i say backup with logic and strong math!!!!

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                            Nah not gonna read that wall of text. It's just Kowadog trying to turn another thread into a shitshow

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                            Kowareta

                              i see, just admit u have 0 education and 0 brain and move on, anyway the way they teach you to earn money dont needs any use of brain, right??? u are not to blame here.
                              just stay in your deluded world like who even fucking cares
                              false hope is my biggest problem, i shouldnt start talking with a moron who addresses pc as "new" cause she bought it "recently" from someone else anyway. :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

                              my bad.

                              Kowareta

                                Who cares if people believe it or not.


                                get some help :)

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                                  No worries somebody else will give you the attentions and fights you need to live, I honestly got bored. It was funnier with Jacked

                                  Zarse

                                    Kowareta might come as an asshole but his point about the matchmake is completely right I'm afraid
                                    ELO based systems exist since Chess and if you're winning 50% of your games you belong in that bracket. If you lose more than 50% you don't belong there, and if you win more than 50% you're gonna climb to your bracket
                                    simply as that.

                                    THAT BEING said Shadow pool is very real and it's below 4000 Behavior score, it's what we used to check as the behavior_player_score: D before they patched the behavior into the profile. It's been a thing as long as 2013 and if you're gonna be an asshole, you're gonna play with the assholes. It's really that simple

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                                      @Zarse who said anything contrary to the first half of what you said. That's a nobrainer. The second half though, that's what I'm referring to, not even the "normal" hidden pool. Does it look normal to you that I climbed to 4k with 54% ranked winrate and stayed at that mmr for months and then all of a sudden I dropped 1.5k mmr in a couple weeks? I had like 25-30% winrate in that period, in 3k, all my best heroes dropped so much in winrate, in what universe is this normal. Games that were over before they began all the time, plus the tilt. Such shifts can't be due to variance.

                                      3Letterz

                                        I have around 5k bs and I play safe lane carry. i can confirm that there are certain matches that even if I win my lane, offlane and mid lose their lanes hard and the game is over pretty much. I had games were the score was like 1-16, 15 minute into the game.

                                        to that guy that said "I won all my matches on low bs when I was smurfing", your point is invalid simply because your smurfing.
                                        my only problem with bs is that it put players that abandon games on the same pool with toxic players who greif for the whole game about something that happen in early game.
                                        there were matches that dragged on all becasue a player went back and forth with another player for the whole gme and went afk jungle when we were ahead. and that happens more than usual on low bs.

                                        ETdAWESOME

                                          How about you queue 5-man with friends and peers. Eliminate your delusions of "shadow pool" by removing the variable of random teammates. From there, the randomness comes from who your opponents are, how good they are, how good YOU are with respect to matching against them. Honestly, not a hard solution, but you'd rather bitch about hidden pool/shadowpool rather than using the tools at your disposal

                                          Kowareta

                                            its a bad solution, its going to be oh no i always match against smurfs, oh no gaben wants me to lose.

                                            some thing is for sure, a whiny bitch always whine doesnt matter what. thats all he/she can do.

                                            Kowareta

                                              im 100% sure even if u put 9 players at same rank as these dudes in a lobby with them, they gonna make stories about that "shuffle" option too when they lose. :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

                                              endO

                                                Kowareta stop playing with your asshole online

                                                anathema

                                                  @Kowareta -

                                                  I'll respond because you actually explained your take (somewhat mathematically) and I think it makes sense. I can accept that being true in normal circumstances.

                                                  What happens is when you go to shadow pool (which as it stands may or may not be the exact same as low behavior score) then you get all games that are type 1 as you outlined.

                                                  So essentially you really are going to lose all of the games in that case unless you are so good that you can actually eek out a 50%+ winrate with all cards stacked against you.

                                                  In other words, you are forgetting that some people do climb for different reasons. Not everyone plays midlane and can solo carry their games.

                                                  anathema

                                                    Also, here is the ringer:

                                                    I am forced to play turbo right now to get out of this pool.

                                                    As soon as I am out, I am going to be winning basically 75% winrate back to 3k. It's not even a question. But if I were to jump the gun and start playing ranked instead of turbo, there is a good chance I would just lose 500 mmr more instead.

                                                    So what is my point? Why should I have to spam turbo and then absolutely ruin 25 games to get back to my old mmr? Does valve want me to essentially smurf? The system is not just had for me.

                                                    It's bad for all the new players who will have their games ruined by me stomping them mid next week.

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                                                    BeoWulf

                                                      Yeah you are right. Same thing happened to me. I was 2.5k, went up to 6k in 3 months. Then i got reported some...and BS dropped to 4k. Was put in shadowpool and dropped to 1k. Had to spam 25 turbo games to get my BS back up to 10k. After that, i played rank and shot up to 6.5k. Ruined alot of games along the way..so I was told by those in 1k to5k.

                                                      Was using my other account. Sorry I won't link it. You'll just have to trust my story. You better...it's true.