viper is out of meta, and his skillset isn't made for a safelane carry nor does he fit in like the other carries of this current meta(spec, troll, terror)
every one of viper's enemy knows that viper is op if you let him touch you so they will buy break, resistance, disables and silence to stop him from initiating.
RIKI
RIKI
an hour ago
viper is out of meta, and his skillset isn't made for a safelane carry nor does he fit in like the other carries of this current meta(spec, troll, terror)
stop buying accounts
I once raped a spect using viper 1v1 spect can't do shit
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3153125327
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Antimage requires space creators and supports. You can easily get rekt if you badly lose laning phase.
With viper, you dont get rekt in laning phase.
roflmao who the fuck would buy diox's acounts
A lot. I enjoy buying cheap 2 digit mmr accounts.
@Xignum true enough. Viper when played as safe lane carry needs the early game advantage to transition strongly into mid and late game. This you should easily get >70% of the time. And even so, it will require a very strong dual or tri lane from the enemy.
Why would you want to lane Viper in the safelane when he can do as much in the Mid and Offlane (Offlane less so) Dual Offlane. Viper also loses to most carries towards the late game.
Meta friendly hard carries shine at late game these days, and in order to shine at late game, they should scale well, have huge AOE, good survivability/escape and good at high ground defense/siege. Viper doesn't scale well, has 0 AOE, OK survivability but no escape and mediocre at high ground defense and siege. Viper is indeed a tempo controling early/mid gamer, and tempo controling heroes are usually ability dependent which makes them fit for mid or solo offlane.
good survivability/escape --> Hurricane Pike/Silver Edge
good high ground defense/siege --> +75 Attack Range/Poison Affects buildings - I personally go for +75 Attack Range + Dragon Lance
AOE --> Mjolnir with good IAS because of Talent +16 Agility
scalability --> with a very STRONG early game and secured safe lane. You can pretty much get EARLY levels + midas to match other carries with flash farm abilities.
with VIPER, it's always about the lead and being one or 2 steps ahead of the enemy carry in terms of levels and items
anyone who thinks he's bad at less than 5k games fak yuj
u can shit on enemy so hard they still smell for the next game and his scaling is kkhhhdidhwhdu
mjollnir for aoe like any range hero, tanky af lvl25 which i got to in my 3 viper games lately with the midas build, the important part is that early game range + slow and dps + being a uam and corrusive skin and that shitty ult ajicusksjaj.
wins almost any lane even in cookie's scenario 1s like bat/bristle/ursa lanes wins the shit out of them, how can he actually be countered in lane other than by stupidity? :/
well if u win your lane and drop the tower and go for the next and next and next u kinda never give them a chance to farm properly considering the enemy dunno the way to play against too fucked up games (probably doesnt)
Using the game I referenced in my original post (https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3161532558)
@ Lv 25 6-slotted with:
Phase Boots + Hurricane Pike + Silver Edge + Mjolnir + Butterfly + Agh's Scepter
I have these stats:
Damage: 209-211 + 108
IAS: 326.6
BAT: 1.7
Atk/Sec: 2.51
Atk Range: 790
http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator/?id=I5t9O2ftoLiNgPku
compared to the enemy slark who had:
Aquila + Treads + Wand + Basher + Silver Edge + Skadi
Damage: 158-166 + 50
IAS: 205
BAT: 1.7
Atk/Sec: 1.79
http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator/?id=J8DjAkoAc30RVR9r
Its very difficult to break hg rn, so games go much later, and i dont think ive ever won a game as viper past 35 min. He just falls off too hard.
Also phase is bad
Aghs is bad
Especially against a slark the fact that u r more farmed is absurd something went very wrong for them or very right for u.
Phase is actually really strong as it gives you that required MS for chasing and maneuvering (synergizes well with Hurricane Pike)
Agh's? Aside from being an expensive upgrade for my Aquila. In long drawn out fights, being able to cast your Ult multiple times is pretty strong. It ensures that enemies won't be able to escape and kite you that easy.
^viper doesn't have the mana to sustain aghs ulti
phase is just shit against slark, cuz it doesn't really help u kite him cuz that's not something that u can easily do to slark anyway.
I play viper safe lane. It's better than mid actually he is a shitty mid. He's dog shit slow and u can't dive under towers any more, with shrines your harass doesn't matter. He gets ganked easily mid and shut down. Safe lane though he is incredibly strong with a support who has a stun.
If you build mjollnir you will have no issues farming. Nethertoxin is his dmg late. It crushes towers he dors really good tower damage actually. I usually go for like a 2/4/1/1 build to start. And poison attack vs buildings slows them down so much any one can tank the hits as you siege.
I'm a big fan, late game viper is very tanky and the slows crush other carries. Don't do aghs mek old school shit though you need righ click like mjollnir for speed and aoe, butterfly, ac. Attack speed is your friend
Jacked
23 hours ago
roflmao who the fuck would buy diox's acounts
rich people who loves buying accounts with very high stats.
mmr and kills. damn someone ban this guy for commenting before he infect us with retardism.
Viper is the hero you have fun playing in low skill pubs outlasthitting everyone and own early stage in order to rekt same for Bloodseeker
damn someone ban this guy for commenting before he infect us with retardism.
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Viper scales fine into late game, I don't understand why people disagree with that. Nethertoxin does an average of 75 extra dmg to heroes, obviously loaded heavily on the backend, 40% and under hp, but if you have someone who can help burst down some initial hp that's a ton of bonus dmg. And vs towers it's half that, like 37 extra dmg on average. Compare to sniper, headshot does an average of 36 dmg per attack and doesn't work vs buildings. It slows and so does shrapnel, but viper has more slows. He has less range, so what? He tanks a shit ton more dmg especially with his armor talent.
Yes different heroes with different play styles, but as a comparison I don't see why sniper is considered so amazing late game and viper so shitty. I REALLY don't want to face a treads, pikes, butterfly, ac, skadi, mjollnir viper at 25 with that armor talent.
the items you absolutely get every game on viper are pike and mael/mjol. After that its whatever the game calls for, my recomendations are ac/butterfly satanic/bkb/heart daedelas/mkb/bloodthorn. Other options are skadi, and sny
I agree with that. I really wish s&y or manta were better on him cus I love the move speed, but I'm not willing to drop treads for phase. Treads are too good now. Nor am I willing to delay pike or maelstrom for casual yasha or willing to take an end game slot with s&y. I guess in some rare cases where you really need to slow right clickers down s&y + skadi would be devastating but you'll have no dmg.
Btw pubs don't trust a lot of shit safe lane. They hate safe lane weaver almost as much, even though I think weaver offlane is dog shit, and they tend to dislike even sniper safe over mid. Try running clinkz safe in a pub, or ursa/lycan over jungle, or hell if you try to go a hero pubs see as support like necro or puga. Gl with that.
honestly i've had no problem with any of these. I've only had a little bit of resistance to venge carry and thats about it.
my safelane viper is this abd i actually thoight about it and made it
boots and aquilla into midas then treads, drum then sb, mostly lance+yasha but maybe pike fast against some lineups, manta or sny, mjollnir and situational items (could be mj first or other item)
the drum + aq gives the mana regen u need, drum's tankiness and early game bonuses for the team and the early fights really effective not to mention viper's ms lacking as i never would get phase over treads since it is probably gonna drop ur dps so much later on (toxin + 38 as + 8damage > phase ms + 24 damage)
i dont get lance after tread since drum loses its value if u get it late and i get shadow blade because it really really helps in any situation. this drum sb before other items worked out really well for me.
forgot to mention the midas. the obvious reason is it's really important to get to ur talents in time or it might be late.
then i do lance yasha mostly. im thinking of lance mael rn i think imma try it l8er. yasha before pike increases as and ms really good and is better to get pike first if it's really necessary. other items i dont really need to explain
I don't like midas just cus it delays maelstrom so much and maelstrom is very core if you want to keep up in gold at all without constantly winning fights. Like say you max nethertoxin and push hard and take all the t1s by like 15 minutes. And now your dumbass team won't keep applying pressure, not safe to cross river and solo push. What do you do? With maelstrom you can farm waves and jungle fine, with midas? It'll be hard to keep up with opposing team until your team gets their head in the game. Midas isn't as big of an xp boost as it used to be.
@Dire Wolf:
No, but since your retarded team refuses to go past the river despite having all the T1's, you are restricted to 5 heroes (at least 3) fighting for farm on your "half" of the map.
The benefit of Midas this patch is efficency. Less last hits + gold to go around, so get an item that boosts that. More often than not, I see pro's using Midas for GOLD not XP (ie, they kill the 2 biggest creeps - then midas the small one).
I often skip Midas unless I have amazing early farm - or am playing a hero who absolutely needs it (Invoker)
i dont remember getting flamed for safelane necro
i even got drafted a safelane necro in captains mode pub.
Wow you are lucky. If I try and go necro safelane they will make me offlane or support. Necro mid is like only carry position NA pubs let you. Same with weaver, people freak at safelane weaver. I'm sorry but weaver needs like max swarm, aquila and perseverance to do anything in a fight. You can get lance, treads, aquila, perseverance at like 15 mins safe lane with max swarm and suchucki and go rape every team fight on weaver. Offlane weaver if enemy team is halfway decent is zoned out or ganked and has maybe aquila.
I mean this match was god awful, worst omni knight support I have ever seen. And still got all those items by 20.
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WIN, MMR up to 4122
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3161532558
Viper Safe Lane Carry
K-D-A: 25-3-18
GPM: 699
XPM: 692
Dmg: 55.5k
Why does nobody trust a Viper Safe Lane Carry in pubs?
#1) Offlaner is taken out of the game for the first 20 minutes
#2) Low Maintenance required from supports
#3) Allows your wannabe position 4 to jungle
#4) 2nd skill allows you to get most kills
#5) Imba talent tree