And has only one single-target stun, 2 if he gets scepter. Also, he is melee hero, so he isn't very efficient at harassing on lane.
Bad at everything a support should be good at [harass/pulling/stacking/dewarding/CC], he only has a single target stun, and he doesn't scale particularly well either. People like to rave about MC, but I know I'd much rather have something stupid like Lina dishing out her two AoE nukes and then popping a fjaighueahgeygeh ulti every minute from the moment she hits level 6 that has like a gazillion range.
The one big thing that Ogre has is his natural tankiness, but there really isn't a whole lot achieved with that.
I can't say he would ever really be that good of a pick, he doesn't even fit in as a niche sort of hero like Crixalis.
Do excuse my ignorance, but how can a hero be bad at dewarding and stack pulling?
Also I felt like he scaled really well with the aggas and multicast double nuke boom, not to mention bloodlust.
Since he isnt ranged he cannot deward alone. Moreover he will take more dmg when stacking/pulling compared to a ranged dude.
@Monkeh - they aren't essential elements of a support, but Ogre Magi does not excel enough in other areas to cover for these weaknesses.
He can't deward wards on cliffs, and being ranged not only allows for much more flexibility with pulls (especially if its a tri vs tri), you don't need to put yourself in as much danger if you are ranged (if you are melee, you need to move right up to the camp which not only limits your movement, but also is a point of vulnerability, take that in comparison to SD who can just use E from an extremely long range and pull/stack without any effort at all), and you don't clear stacks effectively either.
If you were watching the competitive scene a few months ago, the Jakiro + KOTL combination was extremely good, and one of the reasons that they were so good (other than Jakiro's imba stun) was the sheer amount of farm they could achieve by stacking/pulling, allowing for very early Mekk/whatever. Which brings us to Aghs. Where the fuck does that money come from? You are playing a hero that has absolutely no farming mechanism whatsoever, and he isn't given any time to farm such a big item. Even heroes that CAN farm extremely well as supports generally are lucky to find themselves with a Forcestaff or something even 20 minutes into a game. And you can just imagine the difference in the farm that you can achieve on Ogre compared to SD, Lina, Leshrac, Crixalis, Rubick, Jakiro and KOTL. The only time that heroes without good farming abilities [Bane/Visage] are able to get a hold of some bigger items is if they are already extremely far ahead.
Casual is right, you cannot simply built 4200gold item with support in normal game. Also his second stun cost 400 mana..
One thing you really need is force staff so you can actually stun someone with that shitty range and cast animation.
I was addicted to him once (I love multi cast) but I'm recovering successfully :D
I mean he is not that bad but there are much better supports
It seems I need to keep in mind I'm playing shit tier pub games then huh. Last magi game I had fs, agh, soul ring and arcanes before managing a shivas at the end, and no, I wasn't stealing last hits.
I found his ignite followed by a bloodlust worked reasonably well for farming.
Shit tier pub games ftw!
From my experience Ogre is Best utilized in a tri-lane, and people don't often run tri-lanes in pub games.
I agree about Orge being not that good support. But what do u think about Spectre as hard carry not used anymore? I think she has a nice pure damage output, tankinees which damages too, a nice teamfight and map presence spell, escape mechanism (unfortunately not that good in competitive) but i still see her very effective. Just pros don't use her no more, someone explain this to me?
melee + rng multicast is badly broken
multi after multi or no multi at all for few minutes
chance hero..
melee support as everyone said, but that's not an excuse, why is alchemist played as a support sometimes then?
OM is not used much for support in pro games because he is melee. Other than that he is a very good support hero. He is hard to kill, has stun and slow on very low cd, high burst dmg, and bloodlust is an excellent support spell. OM requires almost no farm to be played correctly. I often win games as OM with less than 1 cs/min.
When you execute a gank correctly about half the dmg comes from attacks. This is much easier if you are ranged. Slows and stuns are needed for ganks primarily because they allow you to get in more attacks before the target can move away.
A hero with two movement disabling spells, like CM, OM, Lion, Shadow Shaman, is extremely powerful at low levels because they can keep you in range to be attacked many times. However OM is inherently weaker because he has to spend so much time walking up to attack. A range hero in the same situation could do 4 or 5 more attacks for 200-250 more dmg at early levels.
To win with OM the key is to win early. Do not wait for multicasts. You can win the game in the first 6-10 min with no items. I often set up several kills before I have boots. Let the carry have as many of the kills as possible.
Does he have save ability like SD?
Can he push towers like leshrac?
Can he prevent pushes, restore mana and recall like kotl?
Does bloodlust goes through bkb?
So that's why a hero with a decent stun, decent slow and amazing buff is a very situational pick.
Those are all correct and important points. But really there is no "situation" in which OM is the best choice for support in a pro game. However he is still pretty good and can function well in support role in any pub game.
If you want tanky support, go for jakiro. He has a bit range, good aoe stun, aoe slow, nukes, pretty much all a support hero needs.
Ogre is a great stunner but he is not picked as much cause he is aggressively two skilled single target + multi-target slow.
While I wouldn't repick him if randomed he doesn't offer that much as far as teamfight goes as other heroes would (such as jakiro mentioned by 6_din)
That's like why they don't pick Omniknight. He has a beast heal a free longer lasting BKB and absolutely ridicilous ultimate. But why isn't he picked? Because he is melee and doesn't have a stun or a reliable slow. Yeah Ogre has stun and slow but he really has BIG mana problems. And very luck dependant. If you are not lucky you will be something like a tracked Riki whose ulti does nothing.
he's too easily countered, and your point about illusions is true, a cancer lancer with diffusal will melt him, and even if he does recognise the true lancer, he may not have enough mana to stun him due to diffusal burn
he is usually picked along with LD, just to buff up his bear, who ofc doesn't usually get magic immunity (bkb)
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Tanky support with beast double multi cast nuke agga's eat it hahahahaha.
He's great. Any reason he isn't used more? That stun nuke combo really is strong and then multi cast and then agga's. If both nukes get multicast its soooooooo much damage on a short cooldown.
Then there's blood lust which is a very nice spell and some aoe dot and slow with his other spell.