General DiscussionSkadi on Ember

Yes because it's not a big value. Slowing them down doesn't mean much because you won't follow that slow up with something. You will just wait for your W to cool down. That's it. You would better get a linkens to block hexs and shit.

Attack speed slowed by 35, not 35%.

Makes sense. Not to mention you have your low cooldown stuns for lockdown.

But, i'm not saying to build it for yourself. I'm saying something like build it for a sven that is getting kited a lot for example.

Edit: Oh wow, the more you know. I always thought it was 35%. Wow this item just lost a lot of value in my eyes lol.

IMO it doesn't suit ember's playstyle. You play ember like a glass cannon, you stay at the back of fights spamming W to deal large damage to a lot of units. If you get caught out, use remnant to escape. Yu'll want to build as much DPS as possible, rather than survivability

Skadi is good for support Ember, if that kind exists.

On carry Ember I think that MKB and Abyssal are underestimated. Maybe Radiance too.

Nah %35 = 35. HoM for example gives 30 AS, but at the same time %30.

I don't get it, how can it be the same? 35% would be a lot better than 35 raw bonus.
Also, basher has cooldown. Wouldnt synergize too much with sleight of fist.

sigh soultrap made ONE decent post then he had to ruin it by continuing to post.....

@Sampson
Story of my life... =(

@Gaius
You almost guarantee to stun someone for 1,4 second. And then you jump in with your ult and stun him for another 5 seconds with Abyssal active and Q. It's good enough for me.

OR maybe you could just kill the whole team with a battlefury................

Q is not a stun. But think about it that way. Every hero starts with 100 AS. Then your base AGI adds up and that's your base AS. Then all the items you get go on that 100, so they increase it as a flat amount or AS items on PL would be way better compared to some other heroes.

I just thought of a draft with Ember + Lion + Magnus. Wow.
Guaranteed rape.

Edit: Now it makes sense. But what did you mean about PL though? Illusions don't get benefits from raw attack speed bonus, only AGI as far as i know can affect how quick the illusions attack.

You take Abyssal not only for stuns, this item gives you +100 damage and +10 strength. And if your opponents good enough they can spread and move more tanky heroes forward so you don't get much advantage from cleaves.

And it's the most expensive item in the game. Good deal right?

http://i.imgur.com/Lk0gF08.png

the 'just spread out' thing is just a myth. Unless your whole team forms a massive circle formation and never fights near a creep............

This is like the 10th time I saw that picture.

Ember Spirit farms well, he can afford that.

because people are so dumb when it comes to game mechanics and that pic saves me time explaining it.

W/e last time we argued I realized I was arguing with a 3k guy so I'm out.

@Sampson
Range of W is not so big, if you want to hit in the middle of that "circle formation" you must move very close to it. Which is very risky for squishy heroes like Ember.

Dude that +10 STR from Abbysal should make you tanky Kappa. Also it has 700 range and 550 AoE, so you can actually cast it from pretty far away.

you dont need to hit the middle, if you hit more than one target it becomes the highest dmg dealing item in the game for ember by a fairly large margin

Ok, damage is everything in this game. Stuns are there for newbs. See you in next topic.

clearly everyone on team should all just buy abyssal blades and stun people for days......

I swear every ember thread ends up being a massive argument

Btw, useless but interesting: Since you can use stuff while on sleight of fist, if you build refresher, or sleight of fist takes more than 6 seconds (necro + brood army), and you use sleight of fists while sleight of fisting, you will come back to where you were striking when you casted it for the second time.

Don't know about Dota 2 but in Dota 1 if you casted sleight of fist during sleight of fist, the second one didn't do any damage.

Btw, what did you mean about PL? As far as i know the Ilus don't benefit from raw attack speed bonus. Do you mean that attack speed being higher, more diffusal blade hits or something like that?
Edit: Oh i think you mean his high agi gain would benefit more from attack speed

Yes that's what I meant.

Because dead hero is much more useless than hero with thousands of status effects but standing there fucking around with your teammate in teamfight

If it suit your playstyle then build it, no need to bring other people to it

@Gaius

Attack speed scales linearly.
Every 100 AS gives you 1 extra attack every BAT interval.

So if a hero starts off with 100 attack speed, and lets say they have 0 agi, that's 1 attack every BAT (base attack time interval). Most heroes have 1.7 BAT, so 100 AS = 1 attack every 1.7 seconds.

If you get 200 attack speed, that's 2 attacks every 1.7 seconds. 300 attack speed, 3 attacks every 1.7 seconds, up to a maximum of 500 AS (5 attacks per every base attack time interval).

For Anti-Mage as an example, having 200 attack speed makes you attack 2 times every 1.45 seconds, since Anti-Mage has a 1.45 BAT. You get the idea.

I think the reason behind the % is that in WC3 Dota you started off with 0 attack speed rather than 100, and went to a minimum of -80 (whereas now, the minimum is -80 below 100 i.e. 20) so an increase of 100 AS would literally give you 100% more attacks i.e. 1 more attack. 400 AS would be 400% more attacks, or 4 more attacks, if that makes sense.

If that doesn't explain it, reading this might help:
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Attack_speed

35 attack speed is 35% of your base attack speed. But not of your current. For example someone with 200 IAS attacks twice as fast as their base so removing 35 doesn't reduce IAS by 35%, it removes 35% of their base. Go look up attack speed on dota wiki

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Attack_speed

gah andryognus beat me to it by 30 seconds

and also SPARTACUS

situational item IMO for prolonged teamfights, in most cases, getting another daedalus is much better for your team.

@andy

heroes don't start off with 100 as. They start off with 1 for every point of agi. BAT is all you have to start, not bat+100.

yes they do, they start with 100 IAS plus 1 IAS for each point of agi. IAS is a modifier to base attack time like a percentage so 110 IAS means you attack 10% faster. Look at the link.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/590613786 I tryed it one game 9 days ago worked well but is situational,I made it cus needed more tankines and didnt wanted bkb

less damage than 6 daedaluses

It's a semantic, terminology difference. By dota 1 terms, based off of tft engine, my explanation was correct. Valve, however, has done away with the concept of % based IAS, but retained mechanically the same function with "linear" looking as.

See: in tft-dota, "maximum attack speed" was 400. In dota 2, "maximum attack speed" is 500. Valve didn't increase the attack speed functionally or mechanically.

abyssal on ember yAH

the + dmg, bit of extra str and a 2 sec stun through bkb (:

its always funny bashing people with fist and then just walking up to them tho
just praise rng

Attack speed is added absolutely, not relatively. Gloves of Haste don't give you 1.15 x your current attack speed. It's just +15 attack speed.

^ what you said is true +15 attack speed does not give you 1.15 X your attack speed, it just gives you +15 attack speed. however + 15 attack speed will cause you to attack 1.15 times more in a given amount of time.

too expensive, doesnt fit the heroes playstyle (almost no added damage to W, a force staff is better for survivability/bkb makes way more sense)

i wish people built bkb on him more

ember is going to be trash next patch so who cares anyway

This thread is goddamn awful.

And no, PL's high agility means he profits from IAS less than most other heroes.

Did you not understand the part that we said >("IF")< AS would increase percentage based over final IAS.
You're awful.