General Discussion

General DiscussionI bring the razor light, or at least I want to...

I bring the razor light, or at least I want to... in General Discussion
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    'Sup guys. Last night was browsing over the whole hero list and saw this fellow named Razor which I use to play quite a lot when I started playing dota over 1 year ago but haven't touched since and I was considering giving him a go some more (at least practice him more in some botmatches before going live or something).

    So, I was wondering, what do you guys think about him and what are usually the best item/skill builds for him?

    SalaciousCrome

      Razor is super amazing anticarry as he is durable, has armor reduction (with a couple items included), and can wreck an on-coming carries attack damage. I feel he is best built more durable that as a really hard carry item wise but he still requires a little bit of farm which is why a lot of people take him mid, so as to get that farm up without relying on him as a hard carry in the safe lane (running two core carries).

      Drums, Blink, BKB, Sceptre, Desolator, Butterfly, Refresher etc. all these things can help Razor achieve maximum potential. There are obviously varying builds you can do and items you can chose from like skadi, manta, heart, ac etc.

      Tento komentář byl upraven
      Zenoth

        Half of the reason why Razor is taken mid is because he can win nearly every lane matchup. A good Razor will zone and out-cs the enemy mid so badly it isn't even funny, even typical mid-winners like OD and Viper fall prey to an equally skilled Razor.

        Typical builds involve tankiness and movement speed because Razor is a hero that simply needs to stay alive to piss and kite the living shit out of opponent carries, much like Death Prophet. Phase/Treads is a matter of flavour, but Drums and Mek are both good items to get on him early. Agha makes a good first big item because by the time you get it after Mek/Drums and your tier 2 boots, it should coincide nicely with when your team is deciding to group up and push towers (Agha lets your ult hit buildings).

        Refresher for ultimate pushing (if you can stay alive), else BKB, Heart etc. Build according to the game.

        Tento komentář byl upraven
        Dire Wolf

          Razor has a lot of good item builds. He can go safe lane or mid. I don't like him mid as much because he is not a good ganker unless your team sets up the gank with a stun or something. He has very little burst dmg and no stuns. If you mid him you basically just want to deny their mid and farm yourself. He's really good vs a lot or right clicker mids like od and he destroys shadowfiend.

          For items it depends on what role you want to fulfill. AC is amazing on him, gives him attack speed to max your dmg steal, armor to survive, the armor reduction on enemies stacks with your ult. Yash is nice for movement, add a sange to get a little snare and some much needed hp. Manta is overrated. Aghs is really good if you want to run around kiting people while your ult kills em. Butterfly is a pretty good hard carry item. Heart I also feel is a bit overrated, you basically won't do any dmg unless you have a good drain going, but it will make you quite tanky. Deso is ok, I feel razor needs stats more than deso though.

          Refresher + aghs is a gg tower killer if your team needs that like if you have 2 hard carries but no pushers like a slark and a PA or something.

          Tento komentář byl upraven
          Tktoast

            Razor is a great counter hero and a great carry. He is best played as a mid carry and can pretty much dominate mid against most heroes.
            Personally, I don't like getting his scepter. I focus on getting a lot of movement speed and attack speed; Tower's will melt either way.

            Your item build will likely look the same most games, except for the odd time when you need a BKB, Desolator or Manta. An Aquilla + drums will provide enough mana regen to be able to spam your Plasma Field and the stats to dominate early team fights, It's enough tankiness. You should focus on getting a big item next and do yourself a favor, don't get a scepter. Scepter has its advantages but the amount of gold you need to spend on an item that increases its procs (and attacks towers) is less devastating then getting an item that increases your attack speed like an early butterfly with a desolator. Attack and movement speed with Link is trump, you ulti will still be amazing in team fights without a scepter and that's what you need, He is not a RAT.

            Remember that you can still use ur link through BKB.

            Androgynous

              Scepter is probably the best item you can get for Razor in the 4k range. Definitely beats Desolator and SNY.

              Desolator reduces armour. So does Aghs, but it also gives tankiness.
              SNY gives you tankiness. So does Aghs, but also lets you take buildings.

              "early butterfly"
              Outclassed by AC anyways which gives similar attack speed, makes you and your team tankier, and also helps you melt buildings (and enemy heroes) faster. Also how do you get an "early" Butterfly as a mid game hero without skipping important early items like Mek or Drum? And if you do get it early, and how is it more helpful than a pure HP/armour item when people don't attack fast enough to reliably proc evasion, and your HP isn't high in the first place?

              Check the combat log and Eye of the Storm will be the main source of your damage. Any extra damage from your right clicks due to the -armour from Eye of the Storm counts too.

              Tktoast

                Aghs reduces armor periodically and gives tankiness, Desolator gives you alot of dps and reduces armor quickly on your target, melt faster. If you have the movement speed you don't need the tankiness, Aquilla + drums will give you enough, almost equal to your scepter.

                While I don't disagree with the AC, it can be very good on Razor and team but I'd prefer the stats from Butterfly, evasion and dmg from the Butterfly. Ac can come next if you really want all that armor and armor reduction.

                I don't quite agree with your view on an early butterfly. Hp isn't that much of a concern, you have stats already, armor and unstable current and now you have 35% to dodge attacks, even if they don't attack fast, you will be dodging the same frequency. I don't think you should rush a butterfly everygame, again, everything is situational.

                Zenoth

                  Razor's right clicks don't do jack most of the time. You cannot expect enemies to screw up all the time and feed you a full duration link for you to whack stuff with. Furthermore, if you are building Razor for movespeed and tankiness, his right click is going to be fairly lackluster.

                  Butterfly takes up too much of an gold investment for minimal returns while building it. Furthermore, Razor isn't that kind of hero who can sit back and farm - you need to be active on the map and maintain an advantage.

                  Which is why the Agha pickup is great on him - he otherwise cannot really contribute to a push at all, and scales off rapidly mid-late game in terms of raw dps.

                  Tento komentář byl upraven
                  Tktoast

                    Because you can't expect your link to feed you the full duration your butterfly will provide you the dps, the attack speed, the dodge plus your unstable current and his Ulti. His ulti is still very strong early without the scepter. People tend to get it early so they can push towers out faster... while I'm looking to roam and kill, take lane and towers. Heck sometimes insted of butterfly I get a BKB, again depends on composition. Razor's speed, like Deathpropet is what makes him very huge.

                    I don't think razor needs the tankiness, just the speed. The Aquilla + Drums is enough tankiness, atleast early.. now he just needs the DPS. However people go about getting it is up to them. But a scepter to push out towers, because it really does not give you dps, seems... idk.. I'd get a BKB, Deso, hell Mjolnir even. I'd probably get an Eul's before the scepter to make sure my link lasts the whole charge against heroes like Ursa or LC.

                    I'd possibly consider scepter after having at least 1 big item and that item is situational.

                    Atleast in my case, check my razor's, I NEVER get scepter and usually do very well without it. The scepter seems to fall off late game, heroes like PL, Naga who are farmed with butterflies and hearts.. your scepter is bunk even against all them Illusions

                    Also, your right, early Razor's right clicks are weak.... thus why you change that, make them strong and your ulti will just be gravy, without a scepter.. your speed will allow you to successfully use your link, when casted at max range you wiil be able to keep it up.

                    Tento komentář byl upraven
                    Zenoth

                      The whole idea about scepter is to win the game early off the huge advantage razor gives you in the laning stage, naturally it falls off late. Why let their PL farm up when you can end by 25 minutes? The towers you get from scepter lets you transition into a refresher smoothly and from then its building melting time.

                      Tktoast

                        I never would let their pl farm it up, I would completely dominate him with bloodcyka like DPS buffs with links and items and speed. I think of razor like BS, less like DP. Once razor gets snowballing, the towers will fall fast.

                        I completely understand your view on the scepter and I don't think its wrong. It is very strong if your going that route, but that route is boring and if you miss your links, your scepter isn't gonna net you kills, or helll might not even push anyone out of a lane.

                        Dire Wolf

                          Scepter increases your ult's dmg output by 43%. His ult is also physical so bkb can't block it and the 60 second cooldown is relatively short. It does not drop off late game at all. Plus the stats, it's a huge pickup. And others are right, without a full link razor's right click is poor. Desolater razors are extremely squishy, I would never build that on him. Butterfly is awesome but I'd go probably s&y, aghs first, then decide between butterfly and ac, probably dependent on if someone on my team was building ac for me.

                          Drums is nice, I agree there. I would never vanguard, the ranged block is bad and it does nothing for razor's mana pool or dmg. I also would not mek simply cus razor's mana isn't that good early. Early mek is nice for regen and armor but you won't be able to spam it and your Q.

                          Another thing you might consider if you have free farm mid and it's going well is going right for boots of travel over treads/phase. I do miss the attack speed from treads doing this but being that fast plus your passive you will get full links easily as long as they have no stuns.

                          Also bkb is situationally useful. Razor is pretty squishy until you grab that butterfly or AC. Though extremely mobile, if they have a ton of disablers bkb might be your 3rd item choice.

                          Sir

                            just got 1on5 solo rampage @ 9 min mark. thats razor!