General Discussioni feel like tinker will get nerfed soon.

Let's hope that he won't be morphling v2.0

people learning how to farm with him against neutrals is becoming an issue i will admit. That and the blink buff makes him horrible to deal with. He gets blink and is off to the races..

i'm not sure how icefrog would nerf him, considering that pretty much all his skills are "signature" and defining.

What if he puts a 1 sec. cd on the ult?

He can also nerf his starting dmg.

Or rise the travel boots price. From what i know travel boots aren't core on any hero except tinker. So in theory if icefrog nerfs travel boots(with a higher price) like he did with midas, tinker won't be able to make em that fast.

@Concede, yeah. Simultaneous Ancient and lane farm is absurd.

@Raspharus, I don't think a 1 second cd will change much considering it takes 1 second to channel. Nerfing boots of travel would affect too many other heroes (meepo for one). It would make the item obsolete for anyone but tinker lol.

I'd make his march do less damage to jungle creeps. At least slow his jungle farming down a bit and force him to at least TP into lanes to farm which is much riskier than farming 2-3 jungle camps at once. Ancients are less of a problem since that's easier to counter since you only have to ward once camp as opposed to 3 or more.

Idk how feasible this is from a mechanics standpoint though. It might necessitate a new armor type which might be too much work (and maybe impossible in WC3 I'm not sure) for a Tinker nerf.

I think you'll find this hero is perfectly OK with where he is. ^^ Considering he has been the same for months now, and if we are talkin' blink dagger the same could be said about alot of other heroes. But really, Antimage easy game.

hes reallllly strong. not op, but very strong. he needs a nerf to his march and/or laser.

Tinker makes a comeback from 25,000 exp deficit
http://dotabuff.com/matches/736690445

Just scale march its the only thing you can do without turning tinker into a new hero. He is a broken hero but "fixing" him means taking away his ult which means taking away tinker. Rearm is the problem.

Please make e-blade not refreshable. Also, bring back old e-blade with shorter cooldown so we can have shotgun morph more often. Ty

First fix the bug that allow machine not to be centered on tinker, thus increasing it's range by arround 200
that would at least help a bit against those tinker hidden in tree.

Edit: give back the fog on the map (unblinkable where you never saw the place)

would also help against unskilled furion (will not change a lot against skilled one)

matrice how do u have > 60% win rate in ranked solo queue?

plz, need tips :(

tinkers biggest strength is how fast he can farm.

Win Rate
44.06%
This Month

Before you say this is low tier pubs, it's actually not much better in pro dota.

what an op hero, can't even win half the games he's picked in.

A hero that its not top pick/ban and has less than 50 % winrates in both competitive and pub dota

Oh yes he is going to get so nerfed

If eblade isn't refreshable he won't be as "OP". Or a small nerf to his rocket would do the trick.

Are you guys serious ? Do you all seriously have so much problems agaisnt tinker ? like any of you is losing every game against tinker or what ?

suddenly tinker op ?
what happened ?

I honestly doubt the skill of anyone who just said Tinker wasn't op. Please don't starting acting like you know it all with sarcastic comments(fucking 6k+ player agrees that tinker op)

Dorkly, don't start on this. You can go ask 5k players or 4k players who've gone against good Tinkers. And no, not so much losing as against him as owning since I learnt how to play him about 4 days ago (after finally deciding to watch player perspective replays).

So the hero is really good in the hands of really good players

and still even with a really good tinker player like excalibur for example cant get the hero to go past 50 % winrate in competitive

Yeah must be op

6k+ players agree that tinker is op the same way that some 6k+ players agree that he is not OP

You guys just look at the game that he snowballs hard, why you all are ignoring the HUGEEEEEEEEEE amount of games that he is shutdown hard ?

Bat was top pick/ban, he was OP, the same with IO and both had INSANEEE winrate in competitive.

I am telling you, tinker gets nerfed and he is never going to get picked again in competitive and his winrate in pubs is going to reach earth spirit lvls, its not that you guys think he is OP, you guys think he is annoying and none of you wants to counterpick to be able to win.

@mattheworm

yea because you aren't at all biased on the matter...

@ Instinct and Innocence

because he is one of the best ladder players in the world. He belongs there.

Doesnt stomp competitive games, but stomps very high skill matches in all pick pubs

Must be OP

Kappa

He's not op. He's annoying as fuck and I would be fine with a nerf, but he is definitely not op. It's like saying anti mage is op cus some team built a 4 protect 1 start and cameback late vs uh, wahhh not fair. Tinker's win rate is low, he won't get nerfed.

On the other hand, necro is nearly 60%. Bat is coming.

I've talked recently about fog of war being implemented again to nerf tinker.
could also do what they did to bat (half the napalm dmg on creeps), just with the march.

basically the hero is so frustrating to play against, and forces you to pick particular heroes in order to have a chance. makes mediocre players look good.

I've never actually played a damn good tinker... that might be because of my MMR though

=_="

You don't have to be OP in competitive to get a nerf (like spacecow). I guess its a matter of perspective.

I feel Tinker is too stronk cuz of;

1. fastest farmer in the game AND can do it safely
2. strongest 1v1 hero 30~ mins onwards (unless you had horrid farm)
3. you can jump into fights and take people out before they even react
4. strongest antipush
5. global presense

These 5 things make him so troublesome to deal with. A fat Tinker is as hard to kill as a fat Storm but has like several times the kill potential. Meepo and Tinker are easier than they look, its just people haven't become aware of it yet.

That or I've had a lucky/unlucky streak of games as stomping as Tinker or getting stomped by Tinkers.

Xan pretty much nailed it.

Assuming the enemy Tinker is good, you're fucked unless you play around him. (counterpicks+counterplay).

Dude you personally have a 49 winrate with tinker. So either this hero is fine, or you're so shit you managed to lose more often than not on "the most powerful hero in the game" and if you are that bad, your opinion isn't worth listening to anyway.

I said its perspective, if you think I'm wrong and don't know better then sure, its your opinion.

I understand that he is extremely annoying, but still i dont think that its enough reasons.

I think he has BIG weakness ( did you ever lost to a tinker who got his BoT at > 12 minutes ? )

"You don't have to be OP in competitive to get a nerf (like spacecow). I guess its a matter of perspective."

You mean spirit breaker? He was approaching 60% win rate overall before he got nerfed. You are right, the hero doesn't have to dominate competitive, but it's when they dominate all matches they get nerfed. Tinker is at FORTY FOUR PERCENT. He is not going to get nerfed.

Why would you nerf a hero who losses more matches than he wins. The only reason why everyone is asking for a nerf is because he's annoying as fuck to play against and because his wins are stomps, but everyone forgets that his losses are stomps as well.
Let tinker have a good early game and he's gonna shit on you and he's gonna be unstoppable at 30 mins mark (same with slark, ta or any snowball hero). Force tinker to have a bad time early game and he's gonna be useless, annoying at most, and you'll be playing 5v4 the rest of the game (again, same with slark, ta and others).

Make march do magic damage instead of universal. easy fix.

March not going through bkb would be too big a nerf imo.

Nerf Tinker pls QQ
http://dotabuff.com/matches/738020850

I guess its time for me to move to earth spirit.
goodbye tinker!

Annoying as fuck even on players who doesnt have skill, just march rocket rearm march rocket rearm. Just as a hero alone requires certain counter picks in pubs like earth spirit before nerf. A change to march's damage composition to physical damage would suffice, without taking a whole lot from it.

If they do that though tinker loses a lot of his counter push ability. Enemy teams can pop bkb and yolo towers without worrying about march now. That's a pretty big characteristic of tinker, not just his pushing but his anti push when he pops march near his own towers.

March should not do dammage to heroes, actually two march can do about 700 -800 dammage if you stay in it, when five heroes tries to push it's about 4.k dammage it's just insane.

Bat is still more OP than tinker

but ok

I wouldn't mind Tinker getting nerfed, but for more selfish reasons. I'm tired of him getting overpicked lately by too many people who can't play him. A nerf would solve that problem quicker, but I guess I'll just have to wait until those people realize they suck with him.

But that's why you don't stay in it and why tinker is really good counter push, similar to kotl nuking under tower, enigma dropping his hp removal, warlock golem standing there etc. Take that away and he loses a lot. I mean you aren't taking the entire thing away but allowing a carry to yolo with a bkb and completely ignore march is a big change.

TINKER IS EVERYWHERE - ITS A DISEASE

ITS A FAVORITE FOR BOOSTERS TO PLAY HIM TO POWER LVL THEIR PAYEES
6KMMR TINKER RAPING 4KMMR FOLKS (Check streams, its pretty common)

The one thing I cannot stand about Tinker is his ability to defend three lanes. Same applies to techies.

These 70+ min games makes me want to vomit.

Got owned by tinker several times yesterday and went a little more bald by pulling out my hair. Worst one was this, decided to sell all my gear and get blade mail and shallow grave myself to kill him once:

http://dotabuff.com/matches/738244984

So got to thinking..... Saw another thread about "how to counter tinker" on here, what about a Spirit breaker with MoM/BKB/Blademail? Thoughts on this?

@Mark
One hero should not be able to counter a push alone via dealing 6-7k dammage or more around a tower.
Kotl is a strong counter pusher but he deal dammage mainly to creeps as hero can avoid it.
And when tinker tp to a lane you can't even farm in, he tp into trees where you cant reach him and if you stay into march your dead.

Maybe he should not be allowed to use blink dagger like pudge was, if he use force staff instead of blink it would be more even.

Issue is he's the biggest counter pusher in game and a killing heroes machine too.

do you really think march does that much damage ?

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=74284

Pipe works against march did you know that ? did you know that march is universal and not composite damage so it can be blocked by magic resistance ?

I was playing tinker the other day and a bristle just tanked 5 WAVES of march with pipe

6k 7k damage are you fucking kidding me ? are you insane ?

He means to an entire team under a tower. It does like ~700 if you stay in it the entire time to one person. Not that hard for bristle to tank as he just turns around and reduces that to ~400.

Like i was saying, pipe helps a lot

and even 700*5 its 3500 but ok lets just put 7k damage ....

He can rearm and do two marches lol. Look if all 5 of you stand in two marches like dumbasses then yes it's like 7,000 dmg but no one's going to do that, it's like saying engima is op cus he can drop his hp removal thingy and black hole with aghs and everyone will die. Or lich with aghs is op cus if everyone stands next to each other they will all die eventually. It's not practical.