General DiscussionHow 2 TA

dont buy blink and dont buy midas

done

Same i need help on ember spirit
I have amazing record on ember:
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/50242242/matches?date=&faction=&hero=ember-spirit&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

bottle phase boots drums yasha deso manta(depends on the game bkb)

Watch Waga. He has a thing with her, and it's not a secret. (Crucify me for that pun please.)

Or DragonFist.

phase, wand, drum, yasha, crystalis, bkb, daedalus, AC/Butterfly (AC if facing heavy phsyical damage and butterfly if you are dominating or against something like OD who is not gonna get an MKB. Pretty much standard. dont do blink or midas. Deso is good but i feel that it falls off too hard. Lategame you can also get a satanic since you are not gonna have a unique attack modifier.

phase+blink+desoll+bkb

Starting items tango and 3 branches.

Get bottle (1-2 min) into phase boots (if you do not have a carry get threads also skip blink, get both yasha and drum if you get threads for movespeed). If you need it get a wand, but dont have too. Get either drum (if you need mana and hp) or yasha (if you are doing fine and you arent dieing this is better item). If you are stomping get a blink, if you are not stomping and got drums first get a yasha (you can also still get a drum at this point if you got yasha first). Then get either bkb or manta or both. The rest is situational. Do not get stuck on ta only mid she is also strong in a dual lane with a slow. Also dont be afraid to get 2 points into psi blades before maxing meld if you miss your melds.

Sorry if this is hard to read.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/881891878

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/68379658/matches?date=&faction=&hero=templar-assassin&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

watch, learn

Hey zenoth you go for yasha - deso - s&y or yasha - s&y - deso ?

depends on game, honestly

if i go treads (when playing as main dps carry) it will be treads>drums>yasha>deso>manta/sny

if i go phase i usually go 2 builds, when i dominate the lane (65+ last hits by 10 minutes/hero or tower kill), I will rush for Deso straight after Phase/Wand/Bottle, usually I can finish it by 13 minutes and sneak a solo Rosh after that. Yasha into SnY comes quickly following that then item build is situational, SnY is generally much better for snowballing than Manta

if the lane is hard or the enemy team is full of heroes that want to force fights/push early, i will go phase/drums/yasha > deso or BKB depending on game > Manta/SnY

@zenoth
I also do Deso rush when I'm way ahead, you kill ppl in 1 or 2 shots and can solo Roshan.
Nice to know that some1 else also does this.

I think a lot of TA success is mechanics. I watched videos of waga dominating and you really need to master the refraction/psi blades harassment cus it's extremely powerful. I find TA very difficult vs any ranged hero cus I cannot line up to harass with psi blades well enough and having low range early is rough for me. I can either line up psi blade harassment or last hit, not good enough to do both yet. I think you have to get good at those two things to do really well on her.

the only heroes ta should lose mid to are viper with sentries or razor

Oh thanks for the answer

I would like to ask you one more thing, how could i deal with this lineup ? http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/864800438

They pushed really early with enigma + Q/E Invoker ( spirits ), our centaur didnt had blink so i just coudnt get close to those heroes without dying, we lost a lot of towers.

I guess i should have splitpushed until i got bkb ?

ta loses to random stuff like ds gyro bat aswell

sometimes i prefer power treads instead phaseboots... give some atack speed and ability for change status.. is nice

Really? Only to viper and razor? Cus invoker can eat your harassment, better range early. Tinker can juke your harassment and laser you if you move up to actually target him, then he can march the lane to push you back with refraction on. Those matchups seem pretty even.

http://i.imgur.com/a2afd8v.jpg

ta destroys any variations of invoker omg stop posting

and what does juke harassment even mean why does it apply for tinker hes turn rate is 0.6 which is pretty standard

How to fight TA as invoker? :D
Just try to hit with forge? or just cast ice wall on her?
Problem is i rarely put my forge with me, it's either killing rune or doing something else

What is the best technique to remove refraction?
Glove of haste first item?

I mean tinker can move to the side while you try to line up a psi blade piercing attack. It doesn't really seem that hard to dodge. I know I suck at TA and I am not claiming those heroes stomp TA or anything, I am asking for specifics on the matchups. Invoker has regen and range, tinker can make you miss if you try to attack him with refraction and both can just side step psi blades. Am I way off here?

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/116602844/matches?date=&faction=&hero=templar-assassin&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&game_mode=&region=&duration=

something like this

@Timber

Usually you can kill them both once you are lvl 6, side step psi blades is way harder than you are thinking ( unless you dont mind losing cs )

about lazer, you can prevent it with meld and hit him at least twise. use 2traps and kill him even with mises, you can dive a lot with refraction, but not get agro of creeps.

I guess I need to practice more, whenever I try to rush in for a kill they just back to tower and refraction doesn't last long enough to dive that, I must be doing it wrong. Will watch more movies.

cast refraction and after about 10 sec start to atacking enemy hero, than cast it again

When you hit lvl 6 with ta ALWAYS put a trap in their high ground ( outside of tower truesight vision ofcourse ) so when going for a kill you are going to have 2 or more slows, push the creepwave so you dive with your creeps

usualy no one wants to fight with you after taking meld

ta destroys invoker, tinker is ez for ta. and yes i forgot about batrider, he is pretty good against ta, and warlock as well

Good thing I will never see a warlock mid lol

agro while diving is very ipmortant. use ilusions, your creeps and ets, to prevent you from unnesesary damage

i see a coupple of times, he's realy annoying

good players know how to deal with ta even if they lose mid, there is 1 item in this game that counters ta and that is ghost scepter, ta players usually play really aggressive once she has some items (phase boots drums yasha) so a good player will bait her out with ghost scepter and kill her with back up tps/smoked guys etc

amm, 1 question to TA players. I find the way to item build on ta long ago, but after watching dragon fist games i noticed that he always buy drums and i have no idea WHY!? they are too expensive and they are giving almost nothing. 9 stats? 5% ms? for 1850 gold? 2150 is crystalis. 9 streng will never save you if they ar really focusing you, and +20ms is not what i want to get for 1850 gold.
but desolator+crystalis = oneshot of 80% targets on map

drums is amazing on her, its active + phase boots help you chase shit really easy, and those 9 stats help you A LOT since you are not getting treads for stats. the movement speed is also nice. i wouldnt be able to play ta without drums, because i got so used to it. you can skip it if you are doing very good in lane (which means you did kill their mid 1-2 times and got like 55-60 cs by min 10)

by that logic "9 stats and 5% ms" we can say drums is an useless item and shouldn't be aquired on any hero.

nothing???

drums are literally the best items for fighting early, nothing else come close

a little bit of hp goes a long way for TA

anyway if anybody is interested in watching me go 0-3 and lose my tier 1 tower by 10 minutes

jakiro fucking crushes TA in lane

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/883831265

3.4k player theory crafting:
As invoker, What should i do to slow down TA from owning me is this:

1. Take 3 quas early, lv 3 quas at lv 5 (60% slow for 6 sec from ice wall)
2. Harass her non-stop and spend 200 to buy sentry early ( at lv 2 or 3 )
3. Hope TA draw aggro creep on him and waste some hit from refraction.
4. Catch her on guard with ice wall and finish her off with cold snap and Forge spirit.
5. Still lose mid but at least prevent him from raping other lane.

Am I in the right way or I'm making my laning worse?

I have an idea

Dont play invoker

awful hero

as i thougt. if things are not going well its easyer to byu drums than trying to farm 4100 on desole, and starting to fight with some stats and ms burst to farm more effective items

you need ring of basilius for forges and sentries. if you cold snap ta and try to kill her she will meld and then you have nothing, and might even die.i dont think you can solo ta anyways, you will need help (a stun, to make sure you land ss). try and take her refraction off with forges, but dont feed them to her.

Was talking about using ice wall to take the refraction off her.. (6 damage/sec for 6 sec at lv 3 quas and 1 sexort)
And since i will be taking 1 exort at this point, it's pointless to use sunstrike and too risky against refraction

I am not sure, but the only chance i see from harassing TA is from his low level of psi early.
Hence creep becomes aggro on TA and remove 1 or 2 hit of his refraction.

If I could catch him with good ice wall combined with creep aggro and cold snap, it might remove him from the lane for a while.
Even though in the end TA will won the mid against invoker.
I want the TA player think that "This invoker is fucking annoying" and slow her down a bit.

oh well i didnt read about the skill build. you will never kill ta with 1 point in exort. harassing her wont do much since she has a way better rune control than invoker so she will be at nearly full hp the whole laning phase with bottle. and if your supports control the rune for you, at the end of the day she can just bottle crow/buy a salve and you will run out of mana with cold snap/ice wall.

you need your supports to help you, otherwise u cant do much

LoL

saying invoker > ta is bait but a good qw invoker can keep ta out of the lane with no mana

Drums is cheaper than ult orb and gives 90% of stats and the move speed. It's pretty damn useful dude. It's like 4 levels of leveling stats.

i never lost to an invoker/tinker with TA. whenever i pick TA and the other team picks invoker i know its a free win

maybe only qw invoker with www spam, but still ta can just bottlecrow.
ta>invoker boyz (at least mid)

Ta is top tier laning hero boys. Can't see any 1v1 scenario where she "loses" lane unless she gets ganked or severely outplayed.

Yeah need to stick to those damage over time + sentry build