General DiscussionNeed help with axe

what to do:
- blink in and call people

what not to do:
- not blinking in and calling people

Don't jungle axe. Roaming is ok, but you should just go offlane with another capable offlaner and harass the crap out of them. Any other good harasser or someone with a disable to score kills. I've seen axe + drow used really well, axe + dazzle is awesome, axe + bristle is sweet, axe + omni is good. You want to make their safe lane carry's life suck. Axe can solo offlane too but it's not quite as good.

I would go tranquils over phase. Tranqs are naturally faster and regen you after fighting while you have almost no use for the dmg on phase.

The thing with the tranq is they will most of the time be broken, due to nature of axe and going in and fighting. They are good, but they got downfall.

Also, for phase, i use them as chasing item, phase, and not for damage. But yea , damage is lost

Thanks for other things, gonna try them :)

Call Havoc Badger...

In short tems: Axe, don't jungle him because he is strong on lane, too strong not to be used on lane. Tranquill + Dagger is what you MUST HAVE BEFORE 10 MINUTES, then you can get a Vitality Booster which will later be a heart (I started hating Vanguard)
Max call + spin with lvl 1 hunger (hunger is used for chasing since it was buffed)
Get a Blademail after blink, Heaven's Halbert is a good pickup also, Shiva's is nice, Assault Cuirras is nice if nobody else in team has it. (more damage on your physical spin spell)...

Oh wait, Scepter after Blink + Tranquill is what you should get...

Alternative builds:
lvl 1 call
lvl 4 hunger
lvl 1 spin
lvl 1 ult

With arcane boots, urn of shadows and ring of basilius... (spam hunger on enemies and don't let them come near creeps, stack urn damage alone with hunger, its very strong earlygame...

With tranquils you just take some time off fighting to regen while you're roaming. And non broken tranquil boots are super fast, and the broken ones are still faster than non-use phase. So still decent speed. Learn about creep aggro and just run past them with your non broken tranqs to run up and catch enemies in lane before blink. It'll work.

I just max battle hunger and go ham chasing down kills.............

Fuck it, never again touching axe. Can't play axe, when no one has balls...

Axe is actually more situational with picks, items, and build than people think he is. There is no one size fits all with the hero and while he is easy to play he is pretty hard to actually master.

I will add you and look at some of your games, or you watch mine.

lane with dark seer -> cut lane -> rax at min 10

Phase boots really does not benefit this hero. Positioning is achieved with blink.

euls/force/rod in favor of tanky items is your other mistake. Although these items are not initially bad or useless for axe, there are just items that benefit him more, like blademail, heart, hood, etc

Jungle should be left junglers, mid should be left to heroes that benefit from mid more. You should be in lane as mentioned above, where you can pretty much deny all last hits from melee enemies.

Mogul Khant touch this

That entirely depends how good you are with Axe, or at jungling with Axe or any hero for that matter. I can do equally well with Axe either in lane or in the jungle and it's game dependent on which of these you decide to do.

Since this post I was inspired to play Axe again after a long time http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/886225751 and while sadly a loss due to a 3K weaver raging and claiming we were garbage and he would "dodge" us in future, as well as having a techies on the team (a disadvantage no matter how good) I feel that for the most part how this Axe game went is indication of the heroes strengths.

To reinstate. Axe IS a jungler, but this is the exact same discussion as Doom, Natures and other such heroes who can also be very effective offlane. It's simply a matter of whether or not you can use the jungle properly and utilize the farm it can give without be idle and inactive till you have farmed a sufficient amount of your core items, and similarly not trying to help people when you're too weak to do so. It's about finding your zone, and using them to your benefit and strengths.

whats a good time for dagger on axe

i have maybe 10 games with this hero and i awlays get it at 8-9 minutes.

Yeah, if I am left uncontested I can usually pull out a 8-10 minute dagger so the timing should be about there.

People need to also remember that if you're jungling, double stout is (IMO) a 100% must, and don't just farm camps past the minute. Go double stout and stack camps even if you're currently farming it.

I am actually quite active with Axe so sometimes put a lot less focus on farm then I should in order to assist failing lanes.

Typical jungle Axe, I am usually out of the jungle by 10 minutes (note the TP that I probably used to go offlane) offlane tends to be slower for a blink dagger due to buying regen/bottle etc. or just dying like an idiot, though if that is happening just aggro jungle or something else.

Cut lane with axe is always fun. :D

27 games, 70% win rate with Axe I wonder why is he not above 50%

Try to lane with axe, his creep skipping ability is too good

If the opponent team drags 4 people to kiill you, you are doing good but of course if you die once to them don't creep skip anymore

blink first, I almost never vanguard most of the time I need pipe instead

tranquil boots ftw

Both the hero and the conditions surrounding the game he plays in have changed massively over the last few patches and creep skipping isn't wise as you take a lot more damage from creeps due to the sometimes inconsistent nature of how procs work.

From my own experience...
> Pre 6.80 was around 150 games with about 66% win rate.
> 6.80 was around 35 games with 66% win rate and holding steady.
> 6.81 was where the drop came in and this dropped to about 27 games with 40% win rate
> 6.81b and climbing again but still low at a 47% win rate.

All in all, my favoritism of Axe is over until a rework on the hero happens. Its rough maintaining the hero against favored picks currently and to just about do well with the hero you have to change how you play him.

1. You have to farm more than usual to make the hero viable.
2. You need to get slightly less conventional items to make him work in certain scenarios
3. Double stout is almost a must when jungling or laning
4. I think battle hunger will make a comeback as the most powerful skill opposed to maxing Q & E

Some notes and a lot of personal opinion on the hero seeing as I play him a ton, take it as you will.

I mostly agree but point number 3 simply is not true.

Double stouts should not be considered when laning. As for the blink timing, sometimes its better not to get it first (in a nuke heavy lineup), i end up getting a vitality booster before the blink. In that situation timing is around 15 min...

I still feel Axe should only be in the jungle when you have superior lane control and dominance in the safe lane, no better jungler and an offlane that is doing better than you would have. In all other situation Axe is just better in lane.

@High Society
100% agreed

get green boots/vanguard asap. Farm/kill for agh sceptor at around 25-30 mintues, before a 5v5 fight, insta-kill a damage enemy creep. Allies get profit from boots. Farm/kill for blink & barbed armor around 45-50 minutes. Top off with dagon 5! if game isn't over by dagon 5 get mjollnir or shadowblade.

@ManBearPig
Vanguard is a suboptimal item in the best of cases.
Getting AGS before blink, in any decent setup you will dies before you call anyone.
Dagon?Mjollnir?Shadowblade?

How about you try a game with double stout then try a game without it and let me know if you don't notice a massive amount of difference when jungling or laning. Keep in mind this is not theory crafting this is 250+ games of me running all kinds of stupid builds and testing things that I want to make viable and I know that double stout increases your sustainability in lane a lot more than you would think,

Double stout, tranquils, into blink removes the need for vitality booster which is a massive waste on the hero when most of your success comes with the early initiation. I mean this with no disrespect but the skill difference in playing an axe in low 3K and playing a Axe in high 4K is massive. The last game I played Axe with some low skill friends I literally just build trash because it was that easy to stomp in low tier games with Axe http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/894972528 & http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/896982893

Yes agreed, when jungleling it makes a HUGE difference, as i stated, my points refers to laning axe. Stouts falls short during the mid game or against nukers, vitality transition into heart if you reach that stage of the game.

mmr is broken in pub games and should never be used as a gauge. Ranked is probably a different story. I respect that you have a lot of experience with Axe and each of us has a different playstyle and item preferences, what works for you may not work for the OP. Thus im giving my opinion as an alternative suggestion.

On a side note. I realise now that you are gauging my experience on my profile but truth be told, i have stopped playing as often as the old days and since dota 2 i play to have fun with mates more that to get high ranks. I used to play loads more in W3C days and axe since 6.52 days, when he was no doubtably cut (pun) out for the jungle. Loads have changed since then...

hope the OP find the right style for him.

You sell the second stout quite early on in favor of other items but having that second stout allows you to be able to get any farm at all in the offlane, which is where I actually lane him most of the time. Spending 250 gold to secure yourself kills and more gold/exp is a worthwhile investment even if you're going to sell it off in the first 10mins.