General Discussiontb-when to go manta and when to go sny

i havent tried TB, but ive seen few who get drums.

I IZ GO SNY 2 GIT SKHUDI ERLY I DUN GIT MENTUH WEN VS ES

@Hatsune Miku
What about the drums?

Drums give a bit of mana right plus the extra atk and mvmnt speed.

Just get a skadi too and you wont have mana issues anymore.

sy = teamfight
manta = split push
if you have mana issue, go soul ring early.
It help heaps combined with natural hp regen from soul ring and terror blade's high base hp regen.

kill yourself if you go soul ring.

Lol, whats wrong with soul ring?
The player clearly have mana issue.

i haven't ever had any mana issues by relying purely on RoA sustain

soul ring seems like a total waste of money/slot

^
I've experienced the same thing, but i've seen a 6k MMR Russian player with 60% winrate and 100+ TB games always build soul ring.
So, maybe his build is more suitable to his playstyle?
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/159134689

his playstyle is weird, some games he maxes reflection first, some games he holds conjure until level 14, and some games he does random shit

he does seem to be winning but i cant really read his style so cant comment much on that

thx guys for the help....i guess i might go for manta> skadi rather than mnata>butter....

@Zenoth i guess maybe i have poor mana managment....i seem dun have the sufficient mana to keep spamming conjure image+my manta illu to farm all over the maps.

the key thing is you cannot spam manta illusions for fun, because it has a prohibitively high mana cost and low cooldown when in melee form.

usually i will only use manta for one of several things - right after i BoT into a lane, when clearing an ancient stack, when running away from enemies, or when pushing a tower

for the last two i will usually meta first and manta right after

okay..thx for your insights.. i guess dat is my problem for having mana issues...=)

I think if you are in metamorph mode it's better to spam it from the beginning.
There is a chance that you can cast manta twice in metamorph twice hence more pushing power. :D
Metamorph: 52 sec duration
Manta: 50 sec cd
For normal form, just use conjure.

yes, its a basic part of the quadruple casts of meta manta illusions combo with refresher orb

guarantees you siege 3 lanes for the duration of about 2 minutes straight

Just FYI both manta illusions together make up to 56% damage while his own illusions have 60% dmg each. SnY move speed can help farming and pushing too, and some tankiness along with maim can let you get you some kills, too. Not to mention that you don't have much mana until skadi and you can't spam it anyway, or you'll find yourself going back to base often which is nit good.

Basicaly, if the only way to win the game is splitpush, then manta, else build for the style you prefer, between rat or fight.

@matrice thx 4 your advice...does try out sny build in the case that i thk i cn fight...n d result turns out my HD>TD... first games of tb having HD>TD =)
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/897028660
i guess jz have to be more flexible in builds and analysis d current situation of the games...i m stil learning in btw

learning is anyway the most important thing to do to go forward :)

haha..that's right

I prefer s&y cus it's almost 1000g cheaper, that's halfway to your travel boots. I think it lets you come online sooner and I never have mana to use manta unless I tp back to base.

Why not go both!

you will lose the 10% movement speed but that is not a big deal. You could go s&y early then disassemble and make manta+halberd.

That's what I do to Chaos Knight. Sange and Yasha is a really good temporary item until you get Manta Style and Heaven's Halberd.

Halberd isn't that good on tb as the illusions get no dmg out of it and it takes up a valuable item slot, plus tb usually goes butterfly so I guess you can stack dodge but it's not really needed. I'd rather go s&y and manta over manta and halberd.

Why do people always think that TB is a split-push hero? He can fight in the early game with just drums really.

Depends on enemy team. Heavy magic dmg rapes him. Tinker is so popular I usually have to split push as he can 2 shot you with crazy pure dmg.

i fell that drum is a waste of slot @@.tb usu farm too fast and is getitng no slot soon an du have to sell over 2 k item for nth

I almost always go treads acquila drums yasha manta on tb. It's the superior build in terms of crushing your opponents towers early, this frees up space for you to farm and reach that critical level of farm (where your attack-moving illusions are strong enough to start taking t3 towers)

If the enemy has an INSANE amount of AoE dmg (Legion, timber, ember etc etc) then I might skip upgrading yasha to manta for a bit, and progress into something that simply speeds up my farm even more (since pushing is not an option).
That would quite often be either a radiance (yes, drums yasha -> radi) or skadi or butter or daedalus. This decision is very much subject to the heroes in the game aswell as the state of the game (winning or losing, how hard?) and must be made individually from game to game.

I used to use the build that waga mentioned every game before TB is nerfed lmao.
I don't know why i changed it.