Build seems fine. I've seen people buying phase drums on PA but I can't comment on its effectiveness.
No need for btterfly, stacking evasion not worth it. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/218169353 this game thatI won 2 v 5, can call it 1 v 5 because all that dazzle was doing during last gmeas defending base from creeps. This was long time ago and was hard game for me. I think after your 5 Items You should get rapier, Risky dota, but Hard to kill pa that gets full xp everytime she hits. mkb is situational. What I been getting during past games is mid to late game build, which is vlads, trads, deso, bkb, abysal blade, then ac or mkb or rapier, love this build. Won a lot games with it.
you forgot abyssal blade. you'd probably get that after basher + bkb if you didn't need satanic for survivability.
satanic + abyssal should be the go-to late game pickups as opposed to butterfly. you get way more survivability from satanic with the active + extra HP pool, and abyssal makes solo kills much easier with the active.
because you already have a high amount of evasion, enemies are much more likely to get mkbs to counter you. someone with only 25% evasion with halberd for example, is much less likely to have their opponents get mkbs against them, resulting in the full value from the item. when you have ~65% evasion, enemies are forced to get mkbs or hexes though.
thereby making butterfly's survivability likely to be nullified, and the bonuses outside of evasion aren't that amazing. assault cuirass is a safer alternative. the attack speed bonuses are near identical, the -5 armour can be compared to the 60 damage that butterfly gives you in a sense, both increase your physical damage, while the 15 armour is comparable to the evasion and ~4 armour from the 30 agility.
35% evasion does give more survivability than the 15 armour, but is more likely to get countered, whereas enemies don't feel obligated to get -armour if you have an AC, and even if they do, they probably won't completely counter it, so your gold isn't completely wasted.
butterfly is just an item you'd get in a game you're already winning. it's rarely the best item for the situation.
Yah, ty Androgynous, I upgraded it as last thing, unlease I need a bkb proof stun. like for terblade not to ult me and stuff like that, Also NEVER get another crit. I hate those noobs. like wtf.
Happy to say build worked :D
Yes I remember abyssal , just forgot to add in build
Though HoD is only 15% lifesteal, the bonus 20 dmg armor and hp regen is really nice
mkb if enemy has dodges, abyssal otherwise. Battlefury is also not bad either cus it has so much raw dmg and cleaving in a big team fight can hurt. Don't be afraid to pick one up after boots, pms, dominator or drums.
is basher worth it as a first item (besides lifesteal)? Seems bad unless you have some attack speed. I guess on pa its okay, but other heroes, I don't think basher first is good
if it's hero harass you're having trouble with, pms is better. but if you're being aggressive, basi/aquila is better, because you get more protection from tower shots, mana regen lets you spam dagger (lowest starting int and int gain means that basi aura is basically void stone), and you get decent damage and stats in a single slot compared to poor mans.
you can also casual orb of venom is good in lane seeing as phantom strike has a 14s cooldown, which allows you to get treads for better late game while still having the chasing ability of phase early on.
i also have no idea why you are going 2-2-1 over 3-1-1. the cooldown difference to phantom strike is not noticable while the dagger harass is. if you are forced out of lane, maxing dagger lowers the mana cost and increases the damage, meaning you can use it for cs more often and more reliably, and if you are being defensive, the 1 second of extra slow does more than -3 cooldown. if you only use phantom strike once to initiate (which is generally the case), the cooldown decrease literally has 0 effect.
> get mkb if enemy has dodge
NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF DOTA
we would be stuck in the dark ages vs 6 butterflies had it not been for this advice
> is basher worth it as a first item
if you're getting basher first then the purpose of it is to fight early. it's clearly not for farming since there are better items and bashes do 0 damage. if you want to fight early, then something like a drum first instead would let you contribute much more in early fights than a PA who only has a javelin, and then you can build skull basher after if you want.
also OP,
if the enemy does not have evasion, you should seriously consider daedelus instead of MKB - because most people buy MKB on PA because "more damage". you don't really buy it for the mini stun because you should already have at least a skull basher.
if you're unsure about how critical strike works, crits "not stacking" means that if you roll for a crit for both abilities, only the higher one will take effect, but the chance of a daedelus crit being 'wasted' because you also procced both crits is only 0.0375 (or 3.75%)
the average dps increase that a daedelus crit provides is much higher than the dps increase that you get from the MKB's mini-bash, the minor +15 attack speed, and the +7 damage it has over the daedelus.
By default I have been going.
starting items; 1 or 2 claritys, QB, tangos +gg branches or saving some money .
Then I make a void stone(with the mana regain I can last hit or harass all day with daggers) and brown boots as soon as I can, and then build a battle furry followed by power treads. Some times I need to get early wards for vision in the lane, spotting ganks or to spawn block a pull camp. 150/200 gold sets the BF back 30 seconds, getting killed, or fucked by pulls sets it back more.
after that Its usually a BKB followed by a basher (but in rare games I skip BKB), into abyssal blade and a then a satanic. If the game is super passive Ill build a HoD right after the battle furry + power treads so I can use it to stack with the dominated creep. if I need to build an MKB it usually replaces the abyssal blade.
Everyone tells me that the build is super greedy, but if you can last hit well with dagger the battle furry will come between 10 and 15 minutes as long as you don't die, regardless of how hard your lane is. even if you are soloing against a dual lane or a weak tri lane you can still make it fast enough for it to help you get other items rather then slowing them down.
For skill build you should always max dagger first, even if you don't need it to last hit. its really good for harass and the 4 sec 50% slow on a 6 sec cool down is amazing for kills. you should take one value point in your blink at 2 then max dagger followed by your evasion then take points 2-4 in phantom strike.
If you want to focus more on fighting early you should go; brown boots>RoB/bottle(you really need mana for none stop daggers in lane)>phase>drum>basher/deso>bkb, or something to that effect. I almost always play her as a mid-late carry so I can only say what I have seen others do successfully for the snow balling ganker PA. Even if you are playing her as a carry you should try to end the game as soon as you can, if you wait until the whole other team has ghost scepters and/or MKBs then the game will be way harder.
^
QB instead of stout or a wraith band is not worth as a starting item, imo. You can get it from the sideshop before you start taking jungle camps between creepwaves.
Getting a voidstone asap is retarded as fuck. If you get ganked and die a couple of times you will end up either with a 900g item that does nothing or you or with a 30 mins battlefury. Also with such a low base mana regen, you will get the sam regen from a RoB/RoA. You can spam daggers for free switching your PTs as well.
@ oleksandr, I used to go for stout instead, but i never get harassed out of lane any way (unless there is a skywrath or silencer but it wouldn't help then either) so it was a complete waste. the QB lets you get contested last hits, helps your farm after laneing and makes last hitting under the tower a joke, please don't give me that line about how you just attack each creep once from full HP and then again to last hit that only works if when there is nothing but the tower. I would be fine getting something else from the start if I felt like it was actually giving me anything in lane, since QB is useless as a starting item. the only thing i can think of is boots first, but then I would be going in with either no tangos or no claritys (but i gess it is a better option if you get spotted tangos by a support).
RoB is way more cost effective then void stone, but slowing down the BF by a minute and a half never seemed worth it, especially since the regain is wasted once you have both items and there is almost always some one else on the team who makes a Rob/Roa/vlads so all you really get is the 6 damage and 1 armor and you will have to sell it eventually any way. tread swapping alone never seemed to give me enough mana.
You really shouldn't be dieing a couple of times to ganks during laneing. I wont pretend that its never happened to me but its because I am being greedy, or playing like a tard. There is no item build that is going to still be good if you feed.
There is no reason that 2 deaths would cause a 30 min BF. In my last game with her I died more then once being stupide in lane and missed a ton of easy cs, didn't spawn block the pull camp got punished for it, failed a gank and still got it at 17 min (which is really too slow).
I like to go Battlefury.
I find that PA has trouble farming and/or pushing without it (like AM), + benefits from an easy build-up early source of damage and regen (which she needs).
After this I go Lifesteal and then Basher.
I hate buying BKB on PA.
1. It's boring.
2. I think she shouldn't be played on the front lines, but more like a Riki. Wait for initiation and counter-initiation and then just eat the supports and clean up the cores.
kinda out of order your build.
should be:
pms > boots > hotd > treads > bkb > abyssal > satanic > mkb. You will wreck anything once you get that abyssal. Satanic makes you harder to kill against mkb counter carries.
I like playing PA as mid if enemy can't punish you. I usually go wraith band and tanggo 》 bottle 》 aquila 》 bfury 》 HotD 》 BKB (situational) 》 abyssal 》 satanic 》 Any damage item depending on situation ( divine , mkb, etc ) I also don't play hero as a passive mid farmer. I try to get as much cs in the lane and maybe kill the opposing mid if i can. If i get a good rune, i try to gank enemy sidelanes if i'm sure i can get a kill or simply counter gank with a tp scroll while farming. dunno. not the best player out there, but that's what i think you should be doing as PA since she's a carry that can snowball real hard.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/953225860
In this game i went PA mid when i was stacking with my real life friends. Was up against a storm so lane was hard, but you can still do fine with last hits with dagger spam and rune control. Also you can try killing storm if he's low on mana, so you better kep on checking his mana pool. should be easy after 6.
You should definitely go battlefury after treads in most of your games since it speeds up your farm significantly and its components give you the necessary regen to stay in lane
Here's the thing about PA - yes, you can go for another build like phase/drums/hotd/basher, but you will be outfarmed by anyone who isn't a complete idiot. PA's strength peaks mid/late-mid game (I'd say around 35-40) minutes and if you get a 15 min bfury, having 5 item slots should be pretty easy to achieve.
If you can't farm a bfury for some reason (very difficult lane phase) then you should have picked another hero in the first place
I'd also like to touch on an item that's rarely considered - Manta Style. If they don't have any devastating, non-BKB piercing spells like Epicenter/Echo Slam/Chain Frost then Manta Style is a very good pickup. It works like an Offensive BKB and gives you some additional stats that you won't get on any other conventional item (Satanic gives HP and armor but no agility, BKB gives +10 STR which is nothing and it's an investment with diminishing returns every time you use it, SnY/Skadi are rarely seen on PA)
This is probably the one patch where PA will stay highly relevant in the pub meta so I would hope people use the hero to her full potential and not go some lame ass build that falls off due to lack of farm.
IMO, getting Bfly on PA is actually quite decent. In most cases, enemy will have only one or two cores who can deal you considerable damage via right-click, and the situation where only one hero can afford MKB is pretty common. PA has a nice aspect of being able to bring one hero down very quickly, so the ones who were left will be forced do go through that x3 EHP. Also, damage from creeps and towers isn't something to overlook. If there're no means of actually disabling your evasion (Hexes or Aghs DOOM), Bfly is a very good option. And even if there are - it's still an option to think about, if you can evade being Hexed via BKB and focusing down heroes who are capable of doing so.
"NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF DOTA
we would be stuck in the dark ages vs 6 butterflies had it not been for this advice"
I see many people building mkb over basher/abyssal in my games, that's why I stated what seems like obvious advice.
And dominator is fine as a first item if you plan on building battlefury as well. You can start stacking ancients/hard camps right away, jungle up your battlefury, then go clear a 4 stack to get half your bkb.
If you know for certain you won't be building satanic and you aren't going battlefury I actually like vlads more than dominator, especially when you have another melee on your team.
And yeah, make sure you grab a quelling blade before rotating through jungle.
if you want to dominate early, you can get pt+pms+aquilla+drum into dominator and fight early.
then you can get a basher if you can deal with the magic damage, if not fast bkb and after basher.
after this you can choose if you need to shut down a dangerous enemy> abyssal, if you need more survivability>satanic
after this or even before you can get cuirass since it boost your damage pretty nice and also gives you a good amount of survivability.
and as a last item you could go for heart to be completely unkillable.
so starting build is this = tango+salve+slippers+quelling blade
early game is this = power treads, pms, aquilla, drum, quelling blade
mid game is this = power treads, dominator,drum, bkb and/or basher (you should have both already tho)
late = pt/travels, satanic, abyssal, bkb, cuirass, heart.
this build will work in most cases, and if you feel like farming a lot you can get a battlefury (also helps with fucking lancer and other illusion heroes if your team has 0 aoe)
gl leggo
I often skip the quelling blade since I LH decently well with dagger, and in pubs I don't expect a support to zone out enemies and let me farm.
Aquila is a nice item I haven't considered. Drums was what I once used to use in the Phase > Drums early fight.
How does Cuirass work well with her? As an AGI hero i'd expect her to have high armor anyways, so wouldn't pure HP be better? Like a heart or satanic
cuirass is good against a decent enemy carry, it would be worse than satanic but better than heart.
heart would be better only if they overwhelm you with magical damage even after the bkb duration.
and btw quelling blade is a must for lower skilled players, just because it makes last hits harder to miss.
if you are not getting all the creeps from a free wave, then you are doing something very wrong, and a qb might just make it easier.
^you can use armlet on any hero for that matter even non strength such as void, sniper, i even seen mirana armlet lol xD.
just as you can get mek on any hero with enough manapool, but is it worth it? i think not.
a drum benefits you more with decent stats, decent attack speed , decent ms, and a nice aura.
armlet really pays off only on a strength hero actually.
but you can try any kind of build in normal mm and show us the results, just try to avoid "experimenting" in ranked cuz many people
will get mad :P
You can try armlet but I would not recommend it on any agility heros, you are losing 25 damage. Usually heros with overkill lifesteal grab this item.
^
Naix maybe?
I saw a games where PA bring armlet and did triple kill -_
That really..... dafuq
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/144856858/matches?date=&faction=&hero=phantom-assassin&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
ez mmr
phase->bf(12-15min)->basher->bkb->satanic->abysall/cuirass
@Ryfee
Yes heros like Naix, wraith king, huskar. PA bring armlet does work but there are so much better items and getting an armlet would delay your core items.
Lemmy.
Quelling blade is a poor man's Battlefury.
If you are very contested in lane you might end up having to jungle, in which case a QB on PA will speed up your jungling by almost a third. 225 gold is nothing for such value.
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So I just wanted to summarize all the feedback from my previous post (about a 38/7/9 PA losing).
So its
PMS > Treads > HoD > Basher >BKB(Situational) > Bfly > Satanic.
Anything I'm missing?