Linken's is shit on her. Offers too little for its price. You get a skadi which is a better both offensive and defensive item for less than 1k gold more.
Manta is shit as well. Offers very little for its price in terms of dps and farming. Yasha, however, increases your farming speed a lot so you want to get it, but not upgrade it (not yet at least).
Mjollnir is decent, however there are better items on her. Mjollnir offers a bump on dps while butterfly or skadi give you both dps and survivability.
Safe build: Brown boots -> Aquila -> PT/Phase (depends) -> Yasha -> Skadi -> whatever (mkb, butterfly, daedalus, etc, depends on your needs).
Yolo build: Brown boots -> Aquila -> Phase -> MoM -> yasha (situational) -> 2x rapier.
^ mostly agree, except for the Linken's part. Linken's is good, if you can farm it fast - it offers you a lot of survivability via giving you a better chance to land your ultimate. Same goes for PB. PB is better for Medusa in 90% of situations. Linken's also gives you sustain, what Yasha and Manta don't do.
@OP
Your build has a freaking negative synergy. Linken's and Manta serve the same purpose. It's stupid to get them both in one game.
Mjollnir is like the worst item possible you can get for your illusions. If you're going Linken's, getting Mjollnir is also a bad idea, because they both are items you want to get fast. Any of them is sub-optimal, if you get it as a second big item.
And I don't like getting casual items on Medusa - branches, Yasha etc. Heck, I am even not sure it worth it to get Aquila, if you're going strong safe-lane. You don't want to delay her big items. If you want an item for farm purposes - learn how to use MoM on her.
So the conclusion is medusa isn't really depend on Linken right?
But Butterfly and Manta is worth on Medusa right?
thanks for advice, hope i can be better with this
@Epsik: Sorry, but between a 20 mins linkens and a 21 mins skadi, it is a no brainer. Skadi offers MUCH more than linken's for 500 extra gold, I don't see why would you ever get a linkens instead of a skadi. 10 less stats is a lot more valuable in terms of survivability than 6 hp/150% mana regen per sec.
And you get "casual" items in order to get bigger items much faster and to have a better transition. Sure, you'll get your first big item 2-4 minutes earlier by skipping yasha, but in the meantime you will be a lot weaker and your overall farming speed will be lower. That's why you see pro players getting items like yasha, drums, rob/roa, midas, etc, these items are just too good for its price.
@Christine: No, manta is not worth it. You get yasha because it greatly increases your farming speed (which is absolutely needed on an item dependant hero like medusa), but manta offers very little to her compared to other items.
@Christine
Yes, she can live without it, but she still needs an alternative, because Linken's serves many purposes. Butterfly is an extremely good item for her, in most cases you should get it after Skadi.
Skadi is a core. If you aren't DR rushing, you should get Skadi. Even if you are DR rushing, you still should get it - after DR and, probably, BKB.
In most cases, Manta is a bad item on Medusa. The only way I see it being OK is as a little more aggressive alternative to Linken's. It works due to Yasha being OK'ish early farming item. However, you'll not have Linken's sustain.
@Oleksandr
The thing is, you'll have much more than one minute difference between Skadi and Linken's, because latter is easier to make and helps your laning quite a bit. Also, you'll get Skadi like 6~7 minutes after making Linken's.
And the whole question is wrong - you don't get Skadi OR Linken's. You get both of them. The thing is, Linken's could be replaced by something else, but that "else" isn't Skadi - they serve different purposes.
Yasha is so-so for farm IMO. Midas on Medusa is fucking awful. Heck, Midas is anything, but cost-effective.
I am with oleksandr on this one linkens and manta are both bad items on dusa. There are situations when it could be worth wile to get one of them to counter certain heroes but they really shouldn't be your go to items.
Butterfly is really strong on medusa since the evasion happens before mana shield, unlike other forms of damage reduction, it also gives you a ton of dps relative to other items, and the move speed active is nice too. Mjollnir, isn't that strong when compared to even a second butterfly(asumeing the other team didn't go for mass MKBs) since they give about the same DPS but evasion and armor are better then the active since it costs mana and mana is your HP. However maelstrom gives more DPS then any other early game item on dusa (except maby MOM) so Mjollnir can be justified but you should keep it as a maelstrom until you are 6 slotted then upgrade it.
I used to think powers were strictly better then phase on dusa since double boot switching when you cast snakes saves/generates tons of mana, but the extra move speed from phase can speed up farm and save your life that's enough to justify them. its also worth takeing into account that phase will give you more dps if you build other attack speed items, while treads will give you more dps if you build other damage items.
If you aren't making linkens then you are going to have some mana issues, really all you need to fix them is an RoA.
The one other Item worth considering is Mask of madness, since the damage amplification happens after mana shield you only take more damage to your HP not to your mana. Example if you took 100 damage you would loose 60 mana and 52 hp, as opposed to the 130 hp that any other hero would loose. It also speeds up your farm a ton, and lets you farm with out going back to base if you keep mana shield off when tanking creeps. Remember the UMA will stack with split shot but only on your main target so the life steal works at 80% effectiveness, the attack speed works at 400% effectiveness (asumeing there are 5 things to hit) and the down side is 60% smaller then it would be on any other hero.
I would also advise skipping levels 2 and 3 in your ult, since they give you almost nothing, just +10% physical damage to stone heroes. No more slow, no more duration, they don't turn units to stone faster or for longer, they don't lower the mana cost or cool down. the ult isn't good because of the damage amplification its good because it forces the other team to turn away from you while you attack them in the back for 6 seconds or disables them for 3 seconds if they don't.
How will you take more than one minute farming 500 gold o_o You get like 500 gold farming like three jungle camps, which medusa can do in less than 15 seconds if you have a q-blade.
I don't see how does linken's help you laning, all it gives you during laning is regen. You have 600 range, a shield and one of the best disengaging spells in the game, this means you shouldn't be taking damage in the first place, hence the regen is negligible.
No, they don't serve different purposes. Linkens is a defensive item that helps you tanking with a shitty active that doesn't do anything nowadays due to trends. Heroes like skywrath mage or items like euls are top pick right now, making your 5k gold item's active pretty much useless. On the other hand skadi is both a better defensive item AND a better offensive item, with an active that is actually useful because it helps you with your main issue, being kited around.
You don't get both skadi and linkens because you will end up hitting like a kitten during the midgame, this is not 2010 where you would farm for 50 mins, you have to actually deal some damage. On top of that, there's no reason to get both, skadi does a better job as a defensive item than linkens, and it is at the same time an offensive item.
Please, enlight me, which other item will give you the same amount of stats for 2050 gold? Yasha is one of the most cost-effective items in the game as well as drums. Which other item would boost your farming as much as those two do for 2050 gold?
It seems to me that you're talking without actually doing the maths, tbh.
Easy. You can rush Linken's efficiently, but you can't do that with Skadi.
It's very bad, that you can't see how does Linken's helps your laning, because it helps a lot.
Linken's and Skadi do serve different purposes. Skadi covers tankiness, chase potential and mid-game presence; while Linken's covers sustain ability, farming and escape potential. You don't make Linken's to tank things.
The whole idea of "Linken's can be easily broken with %spellname" is pure bullshit to the core. Linken's forces enemy to work around it. You can't be blink+doomed/hexed/orchided/bananed/etc. There are only few heroes, that can get rid of Linken's solo and instantly, which means their presense is REQUIRED for ganking you efficiently. Linken's is always a pain in the ass for the enemies - sometimes more, sometimes less, but still the pain.
And I said that dozen of times, but I'm sad for you, if you hit like a kitten after you get Linken's and Skadi. Somehow, in my games, 80% of the time I get these items, I hit like a truck, can survive 5 man focus and win the game shortly after.
Also, I'm sad for you, If you need 50 minutes of farm to be efficient with Linken's+Skadi Medusa. Heck, most of my games doesn't even last that long.
It is not about stats efficiency. It's about the usefulness for the hero. If you're going for the farm, Yasha and Perseverance will have almost equal impact, due to latter providing you sustain ability, thus reducing (or even entirely removing) the necessity of returning to the base. And it builds into much more usefull item, compared to Yasha. Especially early.
If you're going for the farm efficiency - MoM is like bananas times better then Yasha. It covers everything you buy Linken's for (in some way or another), very cheap and accelerates farm tremendously.
It's not about "doing math". It's about understanding the hero. It's the same way people say "AM counters Medusa", while they don't understand it's the opposite.
point booster provides more laning regen than pers/void does if u drop it while receiving snake
Or you can use your head before using your Snake. Basilius will give you enough mana sustain to abuse Snake, if it hits at least 2 targets with mana. Also, there are camp stacking and satyrs.
"You can rush Linken's efficiently, but you can't do that with Skadi.
It's very bad, that you can't see how does Linken's helps your laning, becaus it helps a lot."
im telling you skadi rush isnt that inefficient because point booster helps in your laning if you know how to use it lol.
not that i even do skadi rush anyway.
Ah, you meant that. I just didn't got the idea you were talking about Skadi rush. Well, it's better than nothing, I won't disagree.
also number 12 if your going phase mom build its quite easy to get them stone formed by phasing through them with ur high ms i think its better to add 2nd point at 14
you should try bloodstone, if enemy don't have enough disable, it's giving much more tanking power than linken, and also some great mana reg, which are usefull now, that her mana will be depleted before her health. (she would need having only ~1.25 time her mana in hp, while she has aroround 1.5x more life than mana.
I don't see how you can farm 5175 gold efficiently but you can't farm 500 more gold efficiently.
Linkens doesn't offer anything during laning. The hp regen is nice but you shouldn't recieve damage anyways due to your huge range, shield and ult. Mana regen is only useful if you get snake which is already a horrible choice. Even if you get snake you can keep your mana high by tread swapping. So yeah, please enlight me, how does linken's help you laning at all? You're not morphling or weaver who have almost melee range and that can be harrassed down, there's no reason why you should lose health and mana during laning stage.
I don't think 3k bracket games are proof of anything, tbh, so don't bring your games up please.
You have 600 attack range, you shouldn't be taking damage while farming neutrals/lane in the first place hence the regen is negligible. Yasha will provide MS, AS and damage, which means you will move faster between camps and lane, you will attack faster and harder, meaning faster farming overall, plus you don't have to go back to base ever because, as I stated before, you shouldn't take damage in the first place. Compare that to some regen that you don't need and 10 dmg ROFL.
It's all about math, you idiot. If you're gonna theorycraft, at least bring arguments to the table that support your opinion.
Well, your argumentation just went bananas, what else can I say?
@Matrice
Pls, don't go Bloodstone. Medusa is OP enough to forgive sub-optimal builds, but only in cases where you manage to have some EXP and gold advantage. What works for you and your 700+ gpm will not work for most people, if they'll try it.
Medusa with PB, Linken's, Skadi, Bfly, Divine and Scythe has ~85% of her HP covered by Mana Shield, if she recieves only physycal damage. In ~90% of teamfights there'll be enough magic damage, make Mana Shield cover full HP. And she still has Mystic Snake which can give her up to 463 mana - it's more than enough, even with Stone Gaze.
Snake is one of the strongest laning skills in the whole game. Also, it still strong enough to have an impact in the late game. He simply can't use it - he said it himself.
Yeah, snake is so strong that you see trash 5.5+k players like waga, zenoth and matrice skipping it over stats.
linken is meh,
bkb + ulti means 6 seconds immortality
I think there is topic by Waga few pages back, u should check it
They skip Snake not because it's bad. They do it, because they are AFK farming with the maximum efficiency. The same way Matrice and Zenoth skip both TB's slow and ulti - not because skills are bad, but because TB can farm better with maxed out Meta, Clones and stats.
If you can manage 700+ gpm in ~30 minutes game - go ahead and skip Snake, it does worth it. But if you can't (and you can't), skipping Snake is one of the most retarded things you can do. This spell wins lanes and makes kills. If you mostly farm on the lane, and go in the jungle just to kill one-two camps/stacks, it's much better to max Snake. Only if you are AFK jungle everything (your jungle, their jungle, three lanes and Dragon from LoL) - you can skip Snake. It's like skipping stun on Leoric. You don't do this shit, if you don't AFK farm.
This is completely different but really strong too.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/962492744 (2 rapiers on Kunkka are mine)
I build her -> brown boots, aquilla, soulring, midas, bloodstone, skadi, 2xrapier. Soulring is so powerful in lane, harass from maxed snakes is really good & u can jungle using snakes instead split shot.
@we lost: I'm garbage at this game because I never cared about improving, and the little time I tried hard (like one month) I climbed like 1k mmr. I wouldn't say people 200 mmr above me is better tbh, there's no difference between 3k and 3.2k.
I never said "5.5k players don't get it, so it must be bad", I don't play textbook dota. I've discussed this with epsik on another topic giving him my reasoning of why I think it is that way, and as a back up of my way of thinking I brought that up. It's funny how you base your argument on an ad hominem that is not even true ROFL.
Yeah, that was until another 5.5+k player came with another build, you don't have a real point here. I don't think xboct can be taken as an example of good builds or desicion making, he's the same guy who builds vanguard + blademail on spectre and shivas on fvoid.
"The fact is that linkens stops a lot of initiation" If you can't prove that, it is not a fact. I rather take 10 extra stats so I can survive longer when initiated than a shitty spellshield that is blown up in no time nowadays. Sure, when euls was hardly a pickup or swm wasn't near the meta linken's was fine, nowadays there's too much cheap shit that can dispell it.
tl;dr: You wrote a huge wall text and you weren't able to bring a decent argument to disprove my opinion in the matter. Linken's costs too much for what it gives, skadi costs 500 more gold and does a better job as a defensive item unless very specific scenarios. There are other much better players that think the same way I do (i.e. kky), before you bring ad hominem fallacies again.
WiT.HiN_T - I did it in only 3 times in my last 4 games (last game they had too much dmg & I lost too many bloodstone charges early on to go for rapier). Won 3 of them. Before I've built her diffrently. Most matches as her I played 7+ months ago, when my build sucked & in general I was much worse player.
"I'm garbage at this game because I never cared about improving"
""The fact is that linkens stops a lot of initiation" If you can't prove that, it is not a fact"
we fucking lost boys
i always really liked the idea of bloodstone on her but when i tried it people flamed me
Pro psaní komentáře se přihlaste.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/189244963/matches?date=&faction=&hero=medusa&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
is this good? any better idea how to built medusa more better? Thanks for advice