Do you even read your own comments? The difference between diffusal and skadi/sny is that you now have a 600 range 100% slow to help close gaps in addition to dealing with euls/ghost scepter. You then talk about his win rate with skadi, as though its some kind of miracle to have a high win rate with a 5th-6th slot item
and you still feed 10 kills per game in the normal bracket, maybe a few thousand more games and you can get that down to 9
You do know that it has charges, and they run out, and can't be repurchased, so its a good item with an expiry date that if a game goes late without a manta you will find yourself selling it off and either rebuying it or building on of the previously mentioned items to replace it.
yeah, diffusal has charges, so what? How many times have you actually run out of all the charges? Keep in mind that just because you replace an item when you are 6 slotted does not mean that an item was not worthwhile. Even though its a not a cheap item like urn or wand, it is an fairly cost efficient item that does a great deal in the mid game when it is picked up, having to replace it is not a big deal, same goes for midas, or a better example, MoM.
I just copied Matrice build and it seems to work every time. Only threw one game so far, because I was drunk.
Mask of Madness is so good, can solo rosh at level 9-10 and so. And once you make a butterfly fast(deliver it fully so enemies don't have time to react), you can push FTW with aegis and end the game much earlier than anyone is able to get a MKB.
@havoc not meaning to sound rude but you say "low tier" whats your mmr? you like 5-6k? just interested really.
What are your thoughts on the OP who i linked? Keeper of the forest? 68th or someshit for jug.. Guessing hes 5.5-6k. Its just you made it sound slightly like because im in trench dota this works but if it was in an actual 5k+ it probably wouldnt.
@Havoc scrub:
'@+25 I never said diffusal was a bad item on him I was wondering what your thinking was behind it. Obviously he is a strong hero and as long as you're not going to far out on a limb its not to hard to win with him. In your last 15 matches only one game had a ghost sceptre which he turned into an eblade which he probably wouldn't be wasting on himself. You've done nothing wrong and again to reinstate, it's not a bad item at all but should remain (IMO) situational in favor of other items.'
Diffusual blade is the best dmg item for an AGI carry in terms of price/dmg ratio.
That is 3850 Gold for:
4.9 armor
35 attack speed
130 mana
0.3 mana regeneration
35 (+25) attack damage
stupid 4k trash have a hard time understanding the game but i try to enlighten stupid people like you every day in order to try and make dota 2 a better place for 5,5k+ people.
pls stop telling people to go SB on jugger. fucking trash players have lost me like 4 games. and always on my team after i give them freefarm, the stupid fuckers even go midas sb sometimes fuckign braindead motherfuuckers i dont have that many reports pls fucking stop this shiit ignorant fuckiing apes
@concede i tread switch a shit ton everygame for healing ward. shadowblade/ulti combo etc. If you have a cm etc i guess they arnt really needed as much but personally i find i need to switch treads alot.
The reason why lothars is not a terrible item on juggernaut is because it provides exacly what he needs, damage and atkspeed. What people don't understand however, is that lothars is not an initiation item. People tend to run into people with sentries and die over and over again. Sure you can use lothars for trying some sneaky stuff like scouting an area and see if they warded, but you always risk being picked off.
Using lothars on a place where your supports recently dewarded and where you know you will catch a lone enemy support because of rewarding is a thing you can attempt and it probably will work, but doing that the whole game only works on really low tier pubs.
You should see lothars more of a damage item with burst damage than anything else.
@Great
I'm sorry, but Lothar is deffinetely an initiation item, sentries just counter it as wards may counter blink daggers, and it's an escape item as secondary, being his burst just the third good on this item, You should understand that Shadow Blade thought give good stats it's very expensive, with 2800 you can buy dagon level 2 and do 500 damage instead, being a better burst damage than Lothar by far and almost the same price.
Also, it's not always that the enemy can detect you, and contrary to a blink dagger, you can safely escape even when they are wounding you, or of course, safely engage the enemy or give them a great feeling of unsafeness out of sentries zones, highly restraining them of doing many things.
So that's why lothar is by far valued as an initiation/escaping item than a burst item, by its zoning potential and opportunity potential, and for the same price you pay on it you exchange lothar for more strong items or burst potential items, like Dagon.
@Great
Why? I'd rather build it on Drow Ranger/Kunkka or Slark... Doom! You quoted heroes that Blink Daggers is essencial, this is plane ignorance, I'm not debating whether blink or lothar are good for certain situations, I'm saying that you're dumb if you waste 2800 on the purpose to do +185 damage.
You just told me, that lothars is for initiation and it even gives damage and atskspeed. Now you say that blink dagger is essential on centaur and tide. What? Is the 550g not worth the 22dmg and 30atkspeed and the +175 firsthit damage?
Why is lothars not legit on centaur and tide now? It helps them initate right?
You sure that i'm the ignorant one here?
Oh lord 2k player, please let me have some insight on your flawless logic.
fucking noob wave!
is lothar instant? its easily dodgeble you fucking noob. pls just stop posting ffs you keep making people more stupid pls just dissapear already, none fucking wants you here.
What the fuck, I just showed you heroes on which lothar is as good as blink dagger, of course lothar can be good for tide and centaur you dumbshit, can't your rot brain understand a simple logic that you buy lothar for its iniatiation/escape potential first rather than burst potential, not which item is better to initiate, it's logic that blink it's better most of the time, but that's not the fucking point I'm trying to make and you keep trying to refuse to understand.
Of course it doenst worth, you can pay for double of the damage, and 30atkspeed its not even noticiable depending of the hero, you said since the beggining that worths paying more than 2k gold to build a fucking shadow blade because of +175 damage on one hit instead of all the pros that invisibility gives you first, and simple saying my friend, that's wrong, it does not worth, now peace out.
Lol, Havoc and Concede judging and wondering about others intelligence and item/build choises, making themself looks like assholes again :)
+25 - nice post, aprecciate your effort and good will of sharing. The build is more then obviously working and u see very similiar builds in really high mmr games too.
Lothars is pretty horrible on doom & drow, hence no high skilled player does actually build it unless they are trolling. In competitive gaming you will see blink purchased on drow and doom.
Now let's talk about kunkka, kunkka does not use lothars as an initative tool, but more of a burst damage thing. In a highskilled match, provided the game is fairly even and goes into late game, good kunkka players (such as singsing who actually build lothars, not everyone builds lothars to begin with) replace the lothars with a blink dagger because lothars is incapable of initiation.
Slark is also a very different example, unlike all other heroes, he knows when he gets detected and uses the lothars more of a surivability tool rather than an actual initiation tool.
What your tiny 2k brain doesn't understand is, just because you CAN initiate with lothars, doesn't mean it's an item for initiation. It's same same as saying, hey, when i can't find my can oppener i use a hammer to open my beer, that doesn't make the hammer a can opener just because it can do it.
The reason why lothars is a horrible initiation and escape item is really simple (slark is an exception here). It's simply because once the enemy has a gem or sentries, you are not able to intiate anymore. Meaning your initation is gone. (take my example with the hammer and try to open a beer which has very very thin glass as its body) You can not escape with lothars because of dust, meaning you escape is gone.
Of course that doesn't happen a whole lot in your 2k bracket because people don't understand the game, much like you.
I said GOOD DROW, not 4k trash drow.
I certanly hope you do.
As you pointed out, he doesn't use lothars as an initiation item, but more of a burst damage tool. Good you know how to read.
Slark with blink is only decent once you have proper items before the blink. Rather early lothars can be used as a survivability item.
not only burst, with alternative initiation/escape. INITIATION + A BURST because if he notices you, just give up with the burst and X while with dagger its already giving up with burst for more of a positional advantage.
So what? You go in with lothars, then use xmark to break the lothars invis and then defy every rules of logic to say 'fuck you valve i want to use lothars twice' or are you actually suggestion getting refresher for double lothars? ( at least i think i know what you mean, you are not very clear with your sentence)
Also, why should i stop calling you 4k? That's what your rating is. Just because you FEEL that you are 5k or 6k doesn't make you it.
- and you go in, no strange movement -->hit, nice dmg then insta X, etc
- you go in, he backs or try to take you he doesn't know about you, X and go/b, decide not to nuke, etc
I am trying to use my brain as much as i can, but if someone cannot explain properly what he thinks people usually misunderstand the person quite a bit, that doesn't necessarly make the people stupid who don't understand but the one who can't express himself properly. I am well aware that my english is not the best, neither am i claiming it, but in most cases people don't think I'm a retard on drugs.
1.) define 'strange movements'
2.) If i don't want to do something, why would i use x mark and run away instead of just running away?
Also how does any of those things make lothars an initiation item which the topic was, what you actually are doing is proving my point even more.
Can you at least try and read what is going on before responding?
you emphasized on it being all about burst when its equally inspection item. [i think this is clear?]
Strange movements. [Introducing the concept I'm explaining next]
And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. [A way for me to tell you this should be part of your everyday dota match]
In every game i study, whenever i can, the behavior of the players, whether they are aggressive or not and how willing they are of taking risks and also why they initiate or back away. [Ok, honestly i forgot some comas here. I apologize for that. I also forgot the following words "whether they are". Finally, I also changed an "or" with "and also"]
I check to see if they go on you only if they can kill you AND have someone close or if they they are willing to take the risk and get the job done ALONE before any tp arrival, etc. [Ok... I forgot to write this: "I check to see if" and "or if they". This explains the type of behavior the player has, in a general sence. In other words what he's more prone to do]
Counter-initiation on an incoming enemy lothar or instant "b" followed by I GOT people close so i can risk it noticeable by doing a weird circle or moving horizontally instead of vertically away from the incoming threat. [Here I'm describing the situation the ganker experiences. There are two options. The gankeé initiates on the invis enemy (the ganker) or "b"acks away. But there are two possible scenarios for him "b"acking away from the ganker. He realizes he's got the upper edge so instead of full retreat, he stops it midway and makes it look as he's farming, baiting the ganker to initiate, as opposed to just full retreat. In other words a third option. Intentionally not initiating or running away but instead trying to play it cool.]
Behavior while farming, BEST moment to initiate on and how they usually farm, 1 left 2 right for lasthit+ cancel animation or nuke skill usage!! A deviation from that is considered a STRANGE MOVEMENT and therefore changes the approach of MY GANK. [Now explaining behavior while farming and noticeable differences with or without threats nearby. Telling you its best to initiate on a target engrossed in killing creeps as he is more narrowminded than when just moving around the map, prepared to be ganked/ambushed. Telling you that if you know his farming habits then you can notice if he's keeping an open eye for people missing possibly encountering him soon or being prepared for a super fast action and getting to safety making it an unseccesful gank for the ganker. For example a kunkka trying to crit before using X on a puck that as soon as he gets hit uses orb and shift and gets away. Possible since the animation for X is a bit slower than orb+shift depending on where you're facing. So knowing the habits of farming you can identify a strange movement. In this specific kunkka vs puck matchup puck would for example last hit a creep and immediately face towards base, every time, making it obvious he's prepared for the kunkka.]
Should i hint at him knowing i know he knows about me by baking a fake back? then followed by going forth while he tries to counter-initiate me? Remember lothars last a couple of seconds so i can have that time left to assess the situation. Should i just fake go at him, knowing i can bait a teamfight implying im alone and defenseless while the whole enemy team counterinitiates on me, clumps up and we fuck them all around? should i MOVE to the side implying me waiting for reinforcements and better positioning making him doubt his favorable position in CASE im alone???, etc. srsly use your fucking brain this is not fucking lol where you go pewpew oh pew pew oh im dead i respawn have 10 more items lets attackground pewpew oh we won gg FUCKING RETARD. [Using the same kunkka vs puck matchup, this scenario I'm describing here would correspond a puck farming, totally unprepared for an incoming gank BUT with a sentry nearby allowing him to spot kunkka a reasonable distance away from him. Did the puck give away he knew kunkka was coming?, he could've done this by backing up a bit and disrupting his farming pattern slightly and then recovering it by making a sharp "b"ack turn followed by a turn resulting in him keep farming. So assuming puck stays on purpose and supposing kunkka knows this because he knowns the puck's farming pattern. Should kunkka "b"ack away and end the gank or keep going?. Supposing kunkka isn't sure puck can see him and is staying to bait him, should he get close enough for puck to think he's in a favorable position to make puck and possibly others close to puck to initiate on him, maybe even making them chase a bit and getting initiated on so he can have his team wipe them? Should kunkka instead get close, back a bit and see if there's a small change in the farming pattern induced by a supposedly invisible but visible kunkka? Kunkka can just do this by spending around one more second going in, out and then in again (close enough to incite a reaction) and if there's no change concluding puck can't see him and continuing with the gank as initially planned. Kunkka can also delay the gank for more time, by moving aside, just making time for the sake of it, insinuiting he's waiting for someone else, or even giving more time for puck to counter-initiate on him, just to see the reaction and if it safe to just go and kill puck or if it isn't, planning a chain reaction favorable for his team. After that it is rant at how little you guys think and comparing it to League Of Legends aka Noob World]
'And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. In every game i study whenever i can the behavior of the players, aggresive or not and how willing they are of taking risks or why they initiate or back away'
Looking at the amount of deaths and low contribution you're having on your games i would dare say, that you are pretty bad at it.
Honestly, everything after that is simply a word salad. I need someone to translate to english pls.
my amount of deaths are mostly skewered by several 0-30 scores after deciding to ruin min 1-5 games (edit here i forgot to put GAMES)
who gives a fuck about kda srsly, its all about winning and if i can show people they are sucking by dying THEN (EDIT HERE FORGOT THEN) i will keep doing it (EDIT HERE, DOING WHAT? KEEP DYING/FEEDING UNTIL THEY DO WHAT I IMPLY->since im muted) because sometimes words (EDIT HERE -> or pings and wheel chat) are not enough. (EDIT HERE EXPLANATAION FOLLOWS) I am pushing, im telling you to push, you arent pushing oh good i dont give a fuck watch me feed then, etc. (EDIT HERE, REASON WHY I DO WHAT I JUST SAID I DID) So that next time they will do, (EDIT HERE, DO WHAT I IMPLY) and end up winning the game right after (EDIT HERE, WINNING BY FOLLOWING MY ORDERS/CALLS) OR resign the game (EDIT HERE, ANOTHER WAY TO GIVE UP because they will continue playing 4v5).
EDIT-> fuck i just noticed this it not the post i needed to expand on GG
And about me not knowing shit about it (EDIT HERE, knowing about skill display with lothar, countermovements, etc). We had this tournament match where i clearly displayed this, as was needed. havocAllison was there, szotyyii too and i think sam too?? The game we went sf carry and every fight would be clouded by double sf ulti followed by teamwipe. I can dota, can you? cause i only see you talk and no skill display anywhere.
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: k aso...
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: ehm
22:45 - What is going on?: the translation on the forums
22:45 - What is going on?: so i can understand
22:45 - What is going on?: each sentence
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: He's trying brag about how good he si
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: is
22:45 - What is going on?: well yeah obv
22:45 - What is going on?: but i need details
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: and how he reads the enemies playstyle and farm style
22:45 - What is going on?: so i can tear him down for what nonsense he is writing
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: and how he can adapt to the situation very mlg pro
22:45 - What is going on?: lol
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: thats it pretty much
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: the rest is crap or doesnt make sense
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: the point is:
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: he brags about him being able to adapt to the situation
>2k brain
>hey, when i can't find my can oppener i use a hammer to open my beer, that doesn't make the hammer a can opener just because it can do it
>your list of guys you jerk off to
>quoting guys whose penis you want into your stretched asshole
>ignoring overral matches and players, of which yourself play against and not these few fellows you want to be
>ignoring what your game tells you to do
You're in that thin line between people who really play dota how it is and those who are delusional dumbshits are, shadow blade is both things, but it cost that much because its an iniation/escape item first, then burst item, if pros use them in a different way that doenst mean it's not like that, it can't be helped for you, peace out.
>your list of guys you jerk off to
>quoting guys whose penis you want into your stretched asshole
>ignoring overral matches and players, of which yourself play against and not these few fellows you want to be
>ignoring what your game tells you to do
________________________________________________________________________________________
Let's break this down for you:
I'm not jerking off to any players, i don't know if that is something common for you but it surely is not something i would consider normal.
I'm hetero, sorry to burst your bubble. I like me some women.
I don't play against 2k people sorry!
I'm pretty sure i cannot ignore the game and have a 6k rating, that would be ludicrous.
The irony here is that you have less than half my MMR yet you sprout nonsense, like me being delusional. In the end i have given examples (theory and some matches of good players) which shows that lothars is rarely picked up (love me some yolo items like lothars, dagon and such). Yet all you came up with is:
'lothars is initiation item, *insert random insult here*'
Goddamnit, why am I getting involved in this.
LETS ALL BE FRIEND AND SETTLE THIS LIKE MEN. HIT IT MARK!
But seriously though
@Benao, take some English classes.
@カフェコン, I dont even know what to say to you but Im tagging you anyway.
@Great, listen to Mr. Twain.
Or both :) http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/803415630 please give me win next time.
Do you even read your own comments? The difference between diffusal and skadi/sny is that you now have a 600 range 100% slow to help close gaps in addition to dealing with euls/ghost scepter. You then talk about his win rate with skadi, as though its some kind of miracle to have a high win rate with a 5th-6th slot item
and you still feed 10 kills per game in the normal bracket, maybe a few thousand more games and you can get that down to 9
now that i think about it, the power treads pick suprises me...
I mean yea the SY gives you speed, but this is right click jugg we are talking about here... Not like you have mana problems and need to tread swap.
Not going phase with this build is surprising to me as well.
You do know that it has charges, and they run out, and can't be repurchased, so its a good item with an expiry date that if a game goes late without a manta you will find yourself selling it off and either rebuying it or building on of the previously mentioned items to replace it.
What are you so desperate to prove here?
its a bit late to take the high road mate
yeah, diffusal has charges, so what? How many times have you actually run out of all the charges? Keep in mind that just because you replace an item when you are 6 slotted does not mean that an item was not worthwhile. Even though its a not a cheap item like urn or wand, it is an fairly cost efficient item that does a great deal in the mid game when it is picked up, having to replace it is not a big deal, same goes for midas, or a better example, MoM.
I just copied Matrice build and it seems to work every time. Only threw one game so far, because I was drunk.
Mask of Madness is so good, can solo rosh at level 9-10 and so. And once you make a butterfly fast(deliver it fully so enemies don't have time to react), you can push FTW with aegis and end the game much earlier than anyone is able to get a MKB.
@havoc not meaning to sound rude but you say "low tier" whats your mmr? you like 5-6k? just interested really.
What are your thoughts on the OP who i linked? Keeper of the forest? 68th or someshit for jug.. Guessing hes 5.5-6k. Its just you made it sound slightly like because im in trench dota this works but if it was in an actual 5k+ it probably wouldnt.
Just a friendly debate/question.
yo
whats the deal with treads over phase? I have seen it done before but with a pure right click jugg it seems odd. you need the tankiness from 8 str?
I mean its right click jugg, he doesn't lack for damage or atk speed but he has to be able to get to the enemy.
@Havoc scrub:
'@+25 I never said diffusal was a bad item on him I was wondering what your thinking was behind it. Obviously he is a strong hero and as long as you're not going to far out on a limb its not to hard to win with him. In your last 15 matches only one game had a ghost sceptre which he turned into an eblade which he probably wouldn't be wasting on himself. You've done nothing wrong and again to reinstate, it's not a bad item at all but should remain (IMO) situational in favor of other items.'
Diffusual blade is the best dmg item for an AGI carry in terms of price/dmg ratio.
That is 3850 Gold for:
4.9 armor
35 attack speed
130 mana
0.3 mana regeneration
35 (+25) attack damage
stupid 4k trash have a hard time understanding the game but i try to enlighten stupid people like you every day in order to try and make dota 2 a better place for 5,5k+ people.
pls stop telling people to go SB on jugger. fucking trash players have lost me like 4 games. and always on my team after i give them freefarm, the stupid fuckers even go midas sb sometimes fuckign braindead motherfuuckers i dont have that many reports pls fucking stop this shiit ignorant fuckiing apes
@concede i tread switch a shit ton everygame for healing ward. shadowblade/ulti combo etc. If you have a cm etc i guess they arnt really needed as much but personally i find i need to switch treads alot.
@Benao sorry to hear that. Works for me and the builds OP i guess. Blink is obviously great on jug as well.
i just cant imagine having mana problems with jugg when you aren't using Q
Benao: 'pls fucking stop this shiit ignorant fuckiing apes'
ohhh the irony.
uh im pretty sure sb jugg is legit rofl and even better than blink for pubs lol
The reason why lothars is not a terrible item on juggernaut is because it provides exacly what he needs, damage and atkspeed. What people don't understand however, is that lothars is not an initiation item. People tend to run into people with sentries and die over and over again. Sure you can use lothars for trying some sneaky stuff like scouting an area and see if they warded, but you always risk being picked off.
Using lothars on a place where your supports recently dewarded and where you know you will catch a lone enemy support because of rewarding is a thing you can attempt and it probably will work, but doing that the whole game only works on really low tier pubs.
You should see lothars more of a damage item with burst damage than anything else.
@Great
I'm sorry, but Lothar is deffinetely an initiation item, sentries just counter it as wards may counter blink daggers, and it's an escape item as secondary, being his burst just the third good on this item, You should understand that Shadow Blade thought give good stats it's very expensive, with 2800 you can buy dagon level 2 and do 500 damage instead, being a better burst damage than Lothar by far and almost the same price.
Also, it's not always that the enemy can detect you, and contrary to a blink dagger, you can safely escape even when they are wounding you, or of course, safely engage the enemy or give them a great feeling of unsafeness out of sentries zones, highly restraining them of doing many things.
So that's why lothar is by far valued as an initiation/escaping item than a burst item, by its zoning potential and opportunity potential, and for the same price you pay on it you exchange lothar for more strong items or burst potential items, like Dagon.
sb on jugger is insta report and insta loss, thats how fucking bad it is, people making sb on jugger go kill yourselves
@カフェコン:
keep building lothars on your 2k bracket. Build it on centaut, tide etc. while you're at it.
@Benao:
If your name is benao it sure is.
how is yurnero lothars insta loss LMFAO
allieson do u agree that jugg pickers are retarded? :) :) :) :) :)
@Great
Why? I'd rather build it on Drow Ranger/Kunkka or Slark... Doom! You quoted heroes that Blink Daggers is essencial, this is plane ignorance, I'm not debating whether blink or lothar are good for certain situations, I'm saying that you're dumb if you waste 2800 on the purpose to do +185 damage.
You just told me, that lothars is for initiation and it even gives damage and atskspeed. Now you say that blink dagger is essential on centaur and tide. What? Is the 550g not worth the 22dmg and 30atkspeed and the +175 firsthit damage?
Why is lothars not legit on centaur and tide now? It helps them initate right?
You sure that i'm the ignorant one here?
Oh lord 2k player, please let me have some insight on your flawless logic.
fucking noob wave!
is lothar instant? its easily dodgeble you fucking noob. pls just stop posting ffs you keep making people more stupid pls just dissapear already, none fucking wants you here.
Who the fuck are you refering to?
What the fuck, I just showed you heroes on which lothar is as good as blink dagger, of course lothar can be good for tide and centaur you dumbshit, can't your rot brain understand a simple logic that you buy lothar for its iniatiation/escape potential first rather than burst potential, not which item is better to initiate, it's logic that blink it's better most of the time, but that's not the fucking point I'm trying to make and you keep trying to refuse to understand.
Of course it doenst worth, you can pay for double of the damage, and 30atkspeed its not even noticiable depending of the hero, you said since the beggining that worths paying more than 2k gold to build a fucking shadow blade because of +175 damage on one hit instead of all the pros that invisibility gives you first, and simple saying my friend, that's wrong, it does not worth, now peace out.
Lol, Havoc and Concede judging and wondering about others intelligence and item/build choises, making themself looks like assholes again :)
+25 - nice post, aprecciate your effort and good will of sharing. The build is more then obviously working and u see very similiar builds in really high mmr games too.
Interesting. Ty for the tip OP. Just tried it out, its fun!
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1149871876
@カフェコン:
No, you clearly didn't.
Lothars is pretty horrible on doom & drow, hence no high skilled player does actually build it unless they are trolling. In competitive gaming you will see blink purchased on drow and doom.
Now let's talk about kunkka, kunkka does not use lothars as an initative tool, but more of a burst damage thing. In a highskilled match, provided the game is fairly even and goes into late game, good kunkka players (such as singsing who actually build lothars, not everyone builds lothars to begin with) replace the lothars with a blink dagger because lothars is incapable of initiation.
Slark is also a very different example, unlike all other heroes, he knows when he gets detected and uses the lothars more of a surivability tool rather than an actual initiation tool.
What your tiny 2k brain doesn't understand is, just because you CAN initiate with lothars, doesn't mean it's an item for initiation. It's same same as saying, hey, when i can't find my can oppener i use a hammer to open my beer, that doesn't make the hammer a can opener just because it can do it.
The reason why lothars is a horrible initiation and escape item is really simple (slark is an exception here). It's simply because once the enemy has a gem or sentries, you are not able to intiate anymore. Meaning your initation is gone. (take my example with the hammer and try to open a beer which has very very thin glass as its body) You can not escape with lothars because of dust, meaning you escape is gone.
Of course that doesn't happen a whole lot in your 2k bracket because people don't understand the game, much like you.
Drow with SHADOW BLADE http://www.dotabuff.com/players/78410961/matches?date=&faction=&hero=drow-ranger&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
Rank 53 http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/drow-ranger/players
i prefer doom with dagger over sb
kunkka is for initiation, ---> X then splash with the extra dmg, also like blink but i prefer sb.
slark is a matter of playstyle so sb/dagger doesnt matter, both are good
Sadly benao is as blind as stupid.
I said GOOD DROW, not 4k trash drow.
I certanly hope you do.
As you pointed out, he doesn't use lothars as an initiation item, but more of a burst damage tool. Good you know how to read.
Slark with blink is only decent once you have proper items before the blink. Rather early lothars can be used as a survivability item.
EDIT:
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/3940262/matches?hero=drow-ranger
here is one in the list that actually played a lot of drow recently that is not garbage. (#1 rarely plays drow)
hahaha :D
not only burst, with alternative initiation/escape. INITIATION + A BURST because if he notices you, just give up with the burst and X while with dagger its already giving up with burst for more of a positional advantage.
and stop calling me 4k you stupid 3k shit
So what? You go in with lothars, then use xmark to break the lothars invis and then defy every rules of logic to say 'fuck you valve i want to use lothars twice' or are you actually suggestion getting refresher for double lothars? ( at least i think i know what you mean, you are not very clear with your sentence)
Also, why should i stop calling you 4k? That's what your rating is. Just because you FEEL that you are 5k or 6k doesn't make you it.
its not -.-
- and you go in, no strange movement -->hit, nice dmg then insta X, etc
- you go in, he backs or try to take you he doesn't know about you, X and go/b, decide not to nuke, etc
you fucktard, use your shit brain
I am trying to use my brain as much as i can, but if someone cannot explain properly what he thinks people usually misunderstand the person quite a bit, that doesn't necessarly make the people stupid who don't understand but the one who can't express himself properly. I am well aware that my english is not the best, neither am i claiming it, but in most cases people don't think I'm a retard on drugs.
1.) define 'strange movements'
2.) If i don't want to do something, why would i use x mark and run away instead of just running away?
Also how does any of those things make lothars an initiation item which the topic was, what you actually are doing is proving my point even more.
Can you at least try and read what is going on before responding?
you emphasized on it being all about burst when its equally inspection item. [i think this is clear?]
Strange movements. [Introducing the concept I'm explaining next]
And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. [A way for me to tell you this should be part of your everyday dota match]
In every game i study, whenever i can, the behavior of the players, whether they are aggressive or not and how willing they are of taking risks and also why they initiate or back away. [Ok, honestly i forgot some comas here. I apologize for that. I also forgot the following words "whether they are". Finally, I also changed an "or" with "and also"]
I check to see if they go on you only if they can kill you AND have someone close or if they they are willing to take the risk and get the job done ALONE before any tp arrival, etc. [Ok... I forgot to write this: "I check to see if" and "or if they". This explains the type of behavior the player has, in a general sence. In other words what he's more prone to do]
Counter-initiation on an incoming enemy lothar or instant "b" followed by I GOT people close so i can risk it noticeable by doing a weird circle or moving horizontally instead of vertically away from the incoming threat. [Here I'm describing the situation the ganker experiences. There are two options. The gankeé initiates on the invis enemy (the ganker) or "b"acks away. But there are two possible scenarios for him "b"acking away from the ganker. He realizes he's got the upper edge so instead of full retreat, he stops it midway and makes it look as he's farming, baiting the ganker to initiate, as opposed to just full retreat. In other words a third option. Intentionally not initiating or running away but instead trying to play it cool.]
Behavior while farming, BEST moment to initiate on and how they usually farm, 1 left 2 right for lasthit+ cancel animation or nuke skill usage!! A deviation from that is considered a STRANGE MOVEMENT and therefore changes the approach of MY GANK. [Now explaining behavior while farming and noticeable differences with or without threats nearby. Telling you its best to initiate on a target engrossed in killing creeps as he is more narrowminded than when just moving around the map, prepared to be ganked/ambushed. Telling you that if you know his farming habits then you can notice if he's keeping an open eye for people missing possibly encountering him soon or being prepared for a super fast action and getting to safety making it an unseccesful gank for the ganker. For example a kunkka trying to crit before using X on a puck that as soon as he gets hit uses orb and shift and gets away. Possible since the animation for X is a bit slower than orb+shift depending on where you're facing. So knowing the habits of farming you can identify a strange movement. In this specific kunkka vs puck matchup puck would for example last hit a creep and immediately face towards base, every time, making it obvious he's prepared for the kunkka.]
Should i hint at him knowing i know he knows about me by baking a fake back? then followed by going forth while he tries to counter-initiate me? Remember lothars last a couple of seconds so i can have that time left to assess the situation. Should i just fake go at him, knowing i can bait a teamfight implying im alone and defenseless while the whole enemy team counterinitiates on me, clumps up and we fuck them all around? should i MOVE to the side implying me waiting for reinforcements and better positioning making him doubt his favorable position in CASE im alone???, etc. srsly use your fucking brain this is not fucking lol where you go pewpew oh pew pew oh im dead i respawn have 10 more items lets attackground pewpew oh we won gg FUCKING RETARD. [Using the same kunkka vs puck matchup, this scenario I'm describing here would correspond a puck farming, totally unprepared for an incoming gank BUT with a sentry nearby allowing him to spot kunkka a reasonable distance away from him. Did the puck give away he knew kunkka was coming?, he could've done this by backing up a bit and disrupting his farming pattern slightly and then recovering it by making a sharp "b"ack turn followed by a turn resulting in him keep farming. So assuming puck stays on purpose and supposing kunkka knows this because he knowns the puck's farming pattern. Should kunkka "b"ack away and end the gank or keep going?. Supposing kunkka isn't sure puck can see him and is staying to bait him, should he get close enough for puck to think he's in a favorable position to make puck and possibly others close to puck to initiate on him, maybe even making them chase a bit and getting initiated on so he can have his team wipe them? Should kunkka instead get close, back a bit and see if there's a small change in the farming pattern induced by a supposedly invisible but visible kunkka? Kunkka can just do this by spending around one more second going in, out and then in again (close enough to incite a reaction) and if there's no change concluding puck can't see him and continuing with the gank as initially planned. Kunkka can also delay the gank for more time, by moving aside, just making time for the sake of it, insinuiting he's waiting for someone else, or even giving more time for puck to counter-initiate on him, just to see the reaction and if it safe to just go and kill puck or if it isn't, planning a chain reaction favorable for his team. After that it is rant at how little you guys think and comparing it to League Of Legends aka Noob World]
@...
What? I was actually curious and asked questions. I called Kael out for being a band-wagoner.
And i'm gonna call you out for being a dumb ass.
Here's how you can use the dagger so efficient. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1135861781 idk if the replay is still available though.
EDIT: Im not saying the shadowblade is lesser effective than the dagger im just showing how u can use the dagger.
** u can use omnislash + dagger to escape.
'And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. In every game i study whenever i can the behavior of the players, aggresive or not and how willing they are of taking risks or why they initiate or back away'
Looking at the amount of deaths and low contribution you're having on your games i would dare say, that you are pretty bad at it.
Honestly, everything after that is simply a word salad. I need someone to translate to english pls.
my amount of deaths are mostly skewered by several 0-30 scores after deciding to ruin min 1-5 games (edit here i forgot to put GAMES)
who gives a fuck about kda srsly, its all about winning and if i can show people they are sucking by dying THEN (EDIT HERE FORGOT THEN) i will keep doing it (EDIT HERE, DOING WHAT? KEEP DYING/FEEDING UNTIL THEY DO WHAT I IMPLY->since im muted) because sometimes words (EDIT HERE -> or pings and wheel chat) are not enough. (EDIT HERE EXPLANATAION FOLLOWS) I am pushing, im telling you to push, you arent pushing oh good i dont give a fuck watch me feed then, etc. (EDIT HERE, REASON WHY I DO WHAT I JUST SAID I DID) So that next time they will do, (EDIT HERE, DO WHAT I IMPLY) and end up winning the game right after (EDIT HERE, WINNING BY FOLLOWING MY ORDERS/CALLS) OR resign the game (EDIT HERE, ANOTHER WAY TO GIVE UP because they will continue playing 4v5).
EDIT-> fuck i just noticed this it not the post i needed to expand on GG
And about me not knowing shit about it (EDIT HERE, knowing about skill display with lothar, countermovements, etc). We had this tournament match where i clearly displayed this, as was needed.
havocAllison was there, szotyyii too and i think sam too?? The game we went sf carry and every fight would be clouded by double sf ulti followed by teamwipe. I can dota, can you? cause i only see you talk and no skill display anywhere.22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: k aso...
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: ehm
22:45 - What is going on?: the translation on the forums
22:45 - What is going on?: so i can understand
22:45 - What is going on?: each sentence
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: He's trying brag about how good he si
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: is
22:45 - What is going on?: well yeah obv
22:45 - What is going on?: but i need details
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: and how he reads the enemies playstyle and farm style
22:45 - What is going on?: so i can tear him down for what nonsense he is writing
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: and how he can adapt to the situation very mlg pro
22:45 - What is going on?: lol
22:45 - LuckyNumberXI: thats it pretty much
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: the rest is crap or doesnt make sense
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: the point is:
22:46 - LuckyNumberXI: he brags about him being able to adapt to the situation
Is that about right?
>2k brain
>hey, when i can't find my can oppener i use a hammer to open my beer, that doesn't make the hammer a can opener just because it can do it
>your list of guys you jerk off to
>quoting guys whose penis you want into your stretched asshole
>ignoring overral matches and players, of which yourself play against and not these few fellows you want to be
>ignoring what your game tells you to do
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/drow-ranger
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/slark
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/kunkka
You're in that thin line between people who really play dota how it is and those who are delusional dumbshits are, shadow blade is both things, but it cost that much because its an iniation/escape item first, then burst item, if pros use them in a different way that doenst mean it's not like that, it can't be helped for you, peace out.
morph eblade + this song playing ^
>your list of guys you jerk off to
>quoting guys whose penis you want into your stretched asshole
>ignoring overral matches and players, of which yourself play against and not these few fellows you want to be
>ignoring what your game tells you to do
________________________________________________________________________________________
Let's break this down for you:
I'm not jerking off to any players, i don't know if that is something common for you but it surely is not something i would consider normal.
I'm hetero, sorry to burst your bubble. I like me some women.
I don't play against 2k people sorry!
I'm pretty sure i cannot ignore the game and have a 6k rating, that would be ludicrous.
The irony here is that you have less than half my MMR yet you sprout nonsense, like me being delusional. In the end i have given examples (theory and some matches of good players) which shows that lothars is rarely picked up (love me some yolo items like lothars, dagon and such). Yet all you came up with is:
'lothars is initiation item, *insert random insult here*'
You truly are a poor delusional soul, aren't you?
Goddamnit, why am I getting involved in this.
LETS ALL BE FRIEND AND SETTLE THIS LIKE MEN. HIT IT MARK!
But seriously though
@Benao, take some English classes.
@カフェコン, I dont even know what to say to you but Im tagging you anyway.
@Great, listen to Mr. Twain.
Y dont you guys meet up and fist to fist?
talkin about morph..
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1149892799