General DiscussionCan someone who is decent offlaner take a look at my last BristleBack...

Not to bothered about quickly watching the match.

But in terms of items i wouldn't have gone s&y, the movement speed is not needed considering bristles ultimate. However if you wanted the added strength, then you could've kept sange and made a halberd for viper, and anti mage once his illusions die.

Pipe or HOD could've worked wonders as well considering their magic heavy team.

Scythe would have been acceptable since antimage stupidly didn't buy bkb.

WARDS! I know I haven't seen the match but i'm sure u can suffice the odd 75 gold per ward to cover yourself from a rotation, if u notice that pudge isn't on the map then assume that he is smoked and lurking.

Glimmer Cape, although odd on bristle is quite nice for defensive purposes, provides mgc resis, and allows u to quickly juke or tp out. And of course has its can be used on the cm or a friend in trouble.

How can you be forced to offlane BB? The best way of playing BB is to not pick this shit hero.

Also, looking at their trilane, WL Lion AM, u shouldn't have gotten any experience honestly.

This is what happens when 3k players smurf, they fuck up alot

"magic heavy team" What? Seriously, what?

엘크, I appriciate input, but I'd like to see some opinions of more skilled people, if you get what I mean.

Regardless of that, since you wasted your time to write me stuff, I'll answer.

"But in terms of items i wouldn't have gone s&y, the movement speed is not needed considering bristles ultimate. However if you wanted the added strength, then you could've kept sange and made a halberd for viper, and anti mage once his illusions die."

It's great item on him, in my opinion. It provides exactly what he needs, and if you decided to go semi-carry bb abysal is just amazing after sny.

I'd rather get something like Solar for evasion/armor on him, at least that's my opinion.

"Pipe or HOD could've worked wonders as well considering their magic heavy team."

Probably, will think about it next time. But not against Warlock/Pudge/Antimage... going without pipe against them is fine i think

"WARDS! I know I haven't seen the match but i'm sure u can suffice the odd 75 gold per ward to cover yourself from a rotation, if u notice that pudge isn't on the map then assume that he is smoked and lurking."

I remember spendin 200 gold on sentries, apart from that CM covered vision quite well.

"Glimmer Cape, although odd on bristle is quite nice for defensive purposes, provides mgc resis, and allows u to quickly juke or tp out. And of course has its can be used on the cm or a friend in trouble."

CM had it.

@ Sampson, last time I checked you were barely 4k, why are you so full of shit mate.

@Sam Fuckin' Peckinpah

Lion and Pudge provide alot of magic dmg, even viper does alot of magic dmg.

Just getting a pipe will neglect alot of vipers ult, pudge's rot as well as about half of lions ult for you're whole ult. You could also get off your high horse and provide some insightful info from your high skill bracket.

Looks like you have crimson and blademail which has next to no synergy together. Blademail could be argueable good assuming they have heros that can't stop their dmg typ. Luna and Gyro to some degree, but even vs. these heros it wouldn't be a good choice.

Looking at their heros it seem Blademail is completely useless.

Blademail and Crimson Guard has no synergy together.
Doesn't look like you did that much either.

엘크 Pipe is a team item, not a let's block one heros singletarget damage item. LMao.

Pipe is only useful against certain AoE ultimates, it won't do shit against Viper ulti or Lion ulti.
Either way, firstly, I don't think you should have gone BKB. It really only helps against Lion and maybe Upheavel, but you WANT Lion to cast those spells on you because you are the offlaner and not the main damage dealer. Crimson Guard isn't needed either I think, it's just too expensive for an item. What you could have gotten is a Solar Crest. Also you should have farmed more. 112 CS is terribly low, even for an offlaner. Yeah your Jugg farmed a lot, but when you have a very strong mid-game core, he needs farm.

^

Well I have to agree blademail was waste of money.

Can't agree with part I didn't do much, because I tanked a lot of dmg from them, and basically made warlock use his ultimate everytime I BKB/jump on him.

It helped jugg clear them very easily, esp. since game was actually 4vs5(rubick abandoned, and CM went afk-woods at some point for some reason).

I think I did pretty decent job for someome who plays BB once per year.

Sam, idk, I used bkb for kinda offensive purposes. I would BKB, pop up crimson and run into them, they'd try to kill me and jug would get rax or kill them in the process.

I think it kinda helped me, but since I have no exp. as offlaner there's probably better items as you said.

"Crimson Guard isn't needed either I think, it's just too expensive for an item."

Well it helped me several times, but I was thinking about solar or blademail, apparently mistake was buying that blademail in the first place, but at least I learned that.

I tried to farm as much as I could. Game was 4v5 and we tried to end game asap and fight as much as we can. I had no really time to farm.

CS I got was mainly from laning phase if I remember.

dont go solo offlane bb untill some next patches come. it wasnt viable for more than a year, mb even two,

Ok, so what I learned so far:

Don't get crimson and blademail, coinsider going solar crest. ^^

Triple, idk, i still find this hero fun to play and so far sucesefull aswell.

Then again, there's just few heroes I can barely play on offlane, so I'd rather stick to BB and try to play my best rather then picking something else.

I also tried Enchantress. liked it, would repat, but for some reason I thought BB is nice against them.

Blademail is just wrong on BB, because unlike other heroes, he doesn't get tanky by having high HP. He simply is tanky because of his passive. That means he actually doesn't have that high HP and he takes less damage so Blademail also returns less damage.

if u want to go bb offlane, as for dual lane. some Io or dazzle would be perfect.

BM is not absolutely useless and there are certain scenarios under which u can get this item, but in most cases its suboptimal.

I see. Thanks, lesson learned.

@ Triple, I said that to CM guy, he picked CM, went with me, died few times, abandoned the lane and started to farm woods.

#JustCMThings

At least he was usefull later on, not gonna lie.

Jack the safe lane and tell ur carry and supports to go to the offlane. Alternatively just afk in the jungle and keep a tp for when they realise what your doing.
E: These are the alternatives to feeding in the offlane with bb I think.

Yeah not a fan of those items choices, but let me ask did you die a lot early? You have to realize bb bides his time offlane and kinda sucks until lvl 6. Like he is super squishy until at least rank 2 of his bristleback. And to really win an offlane you gotta have at least one goo, some quills and bb and dive people. Plus lion is a really big bb counter, him and shadow shaman probably have the best disables to deal with you. Just play more cautious at start then go gangbusters.

I think s&y is fine, bkb not really needed unless you are a position 1 or 2 carry, considered octarine and/or aghs though, both really nice bb items now for hp and skill spam.

I died 4 times. Hooked by pudtka from fog, stuned to death.

Ganked from SB Viper, got rekt. Few more times by doing splitpush(but at least I took towers, so not that bad)

"I think s&y is fine, bkb not really needed unless you are a position 1 or 2 carry, considered octarine and/or aghs though, both really nice bb items now for hp and skill spam."

I kinda needed to step in first to make sure jugg kills them or at least bait them use their spells(warlock golems) on me, so BKB helped not to get stuned by lion/etc.

Forgot about aghs, tbh. Octarine is nice I guess but I had to end this game fast, we were 4v5 and antimage started to get out of control.

So I had to go for cost-efficient items such as sny, blademail(was bad, i know, realised), crimson guard, pt, etc.

Wrong items, low farm, low impact. Sam already pointed out many of the good things but there could be a few but I'm not going to write an essay with what you did wrong, there are probably more than 100 mistakes.

My stance on smurfs has never changed I don't get why you are surprised.

crimson isnt that cost efficient. the recipe's like 800g, and it gives u the active ability, which is better for your team since you already have damage block, making it less effective on yourself. vanguard's cost efficient though.

^

Andro, are you sugesting that if I get vanguard I should stick to it and not uprade it to Crimson?

Because getting crimson made my team stick with me, and we managed to block some sick dmg I think.

Do you think it's better to get Solar instead of Crimson next time then, or it just depends on game?

You coule have gone for lotus instead of sny, and then make a vladi out of that basil, a 4200 on a carry item on bb isnt good.

Bb only need people to hit him, he dont need sny

Well i don play BB as much as i used too (7th on D.buff), but previously used to always play him solo on the offlane against mostly trilanes.

- Always have your ward up, buy it if you have to and just keep yourself safe.
- stack your own camps for recovery gold.
- SNY synergy with BB Skills are awesome, crimson is game dependent, wouldn't have upgraded in this case.

Skip the blademail, i used to get that alot when i didn't know better. Vlads is a decent pick up if no one is getting it and your gonna push hard early. I like picking up AC as well for greater synergy with your skills. Wand is love, Wand is life

Got to be very particular on angles playing BB, the dmg reduction difference is really a huge factor if you can time it and position yourself.

SOAK everything up and give them back in twofold!!!!

QUILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY

I wanted to get vlads, cm did it. :)

I'll try to stack camps next time, nice tip.

AC/Wand, yeah, agreed!

I tried to get "particular on angles" as much as I could > :>

^any melee offlaner? What about LC 1v1 antimage? I find that trading with him hurts when he takes your mana but eventually his hp loss is more concerning than your mana loss, since you have sustain due to lifesteal.

Yeah, I was referring to 1v1. Obviously going solo against a dual lane or trilane with lc only works if it's really weak or players are garbage. Strong dual lane with lc can dumpster some equally skilled trilanes though, the problem is if they have two ranged supports who can fuck you while you try to come in to harass or take last hits, or they give AM sustain.

im saying if you're looking for cost efficient items, crimson guard isn't one.

crimson guard is a fine item to get, but not worth upgrading if you're low on gold, as opposed to saving up toward another item. look at vanguard. it has no recipe and the end item is better than the sum of it's components.

a vanguard and buckler gives the same stats as a crimson guard, so what you're paying 600g for, is an item slot (although you wouldn't go standalone buckler anyway), and the active ability, which only increases your personal damage block by 20, since vg/cg both have 100% chance to block 32 damage, which gets boosted to 55 by crimson's active.

if the enemy's majority of damage is physical, then get a crimson guard still. in this game, it wasn't. they do have decent physical damage but they also have high amounts of non-physical damage damage so crimson guard won't get full value, while an item like point booster would have had a guaranteed effect on your survivability, and also been built into another item such as aghs or soul booster.

solar crest is also a good item on bristle, idk if I'd get it that game though. idk about comparing crimson to solar. that would mean skipping vanguard, and you're going to get it on bristle most games, so crimson is more like a 1400g item because you're assuming that you'll already have vanguard.

it's more like, would you rather have vanguard and medallion, or upgrade to crimson guard. medallion increases your damage and rosh speed, and provides you and your team extra tankiness, obviously not at the same time. would you rather have that and have your solar crest quicker, or would you go crimson guard and then have a crimson guard and ~1700g of items (point booster, medallion, etc) when you could have had a vanguard and solar crest instead.

both solar and crimson guard are situational on bristle. sometimes one is better than the other. vanguard and SNY are almost core on him though, because they're a good item in many situations.

I realised quickly that both crimson and solar ar situational.

"if the enemy's majority of damage is physical, then get a crimson guard still. in this game, it wasn't. they do have decent physical damage but they also have high amounts of non-physical damage damage so crimson guard won't get full value, while an item like point booster would have had a guaranteed effect on your survivability, and also been built into another item such as aghs or soul booster."

I see. I'll just say that as unexperienced offlaner I thought getting solar will block dmg of antimage/etc. It kinda did and it helped us, but then again, will think about it next time. You made your point.

"vanguard and SNY are almost core on him though, because they're a good item in many situations."

Agree!

Thanks for input ANdro. Usefull as always.

Sometimes it's okay to get an early medallion on some heroes, but sell it later to get your slot back, you do lose 600 gold but sometimes it's better than completing solar crest if it's not an ideal six slot item in such a situation, but you get the MoC because you see you can rape people with early -7 armor.