BKB duration is 5 second
LC has 180 bonus dmg
LC has PtA and BKB active when blinking in, but loses roughly 0,5 seconds due to human factor which gives an effective duration for both of 4,5 seconds
Dispersion is included this time
Desolate procs every attack after BKB ends
Moc procs 1 time every 1,57 seconds healing for 85% of attack damage after reductions (77% with armor and dispersion)
Daedalus increases DPS by 36%
Evasion is negated
MoC increases DPS in this case by 50% (no PTA) and 33% (with PTA)*
MoC stacks additively with crit stick, for a total of 86% and 69% dps increase respectively.
Magic resistance is 25% (both heroes)
*= MoC is limited to proccing a maximum of once every 0,8 seconds in 25% of attacks. Given spectres attack speed of 2,54 A/S this means an extra attack once every 1,57 seconds for LC. The DPS increase as a fraction thus relates to LC’s current AS.
DPS (before reductions including increases from Moc and crit), with PTA: 1709
DPS (before reductions including increases from Moc and crit), no PTA: 1209
Pure DPS (after all reductions, with PTA): 400
Pure DPS (after all reductions, no PTA): 283
MoC average heal/sec (after all reductions): 66
PtA heal/sec: 60
DPS (before reductions excluding desolate and dispersion): 587
DPS (before reductions including desolate and dispersion**): 1088
Pure DPS (after all reductions, excluding desolate and dispersion): 411
Pure DPS (after all reductions, including desolate and dispersion): 776
Pure DPS (excluding desolate and dispersion, accounting for PtA and MoC heal): 285
Pure DPS (including desolate and dispersion, accounting for MoC heal): 710
Pure DPS*** (including 2 manta illusions with desolate, with MoC heal): 1239
Pure DPS*** (including 2 manta and 1 haunt illusions with desolate, with MoC heal): 1495
**= Assuming LC DPS of 1496 of which 22% is dealt as magic dmg (265 dps before reductions), effectively ~200 pure DPS after taking magic resistance into account
**= Assuming the real spectre is being attacked and thus deal dispersion damage
5. THE DUEL
LC jumps spectre for a 6,25 second duel of which BKB + PtA is active for 4,5 seconds
5.1 FIRST PHASE, with BKB + PTA active
LC raw health, pre duel: 2812
Spectre raw health, pre duel: 3808
LC deals a total of 1800 pure damage
Spectre deals a total of 1850 pure damage
LC Raw health, after 4.5 seconds: 1012
Spectre raw health, after 4.5 seconds: 2008
5.2 SECOND PHASE, no BKB + PTA
After this, spectre gets signicantly stronger and LC significantly weaker
Time for LC to get 0 hp: 1,42 seconds
Time for Spectre to get 0 hp: 7,10 seconds
5.3 THIRD PHASE, after duel
>Spectre has killed LC for 1231 gold!
6. CONCLUSION:
Spectre kills LC in 5,92 seconds and gets +18 duel damage in all circumstances this late into the game, with 5 second bkb and both 7 slotted
If LC should fail to surprise Spectre so that he has time to activate manta (as an avid spectre player I do insist that you have the time for it with good reaction unless LC shifts blink->duel), spectre kills LC in 2,26 seconds. If Spectre is able to haunt as well, LC dies in 1,88 seconds.
Lets toy with another scenario. LC has given up BKB for another moon shard. Spectre haunts to LC and has time to activate manta style. For LC to kill solo kill spectre during this 2,26 second time frame LC would have to dish out 1685 pure dps. With PtA active + the AS from the 1,5 moonshards, this means LC needs to dish out 745 pure damage PER HIT. In other terms, given spectres total dmg reduction of ~77% LC needs –at least – a whopping 1900 duel damage to outcarry spectre in this 1v1 situation. That’s about 105 successful level 3 duels.
Desolate can't Pierce bkb so does dispersion. Lc crits for 1k dmg It won't even take a full duel duration to kill spec late game. And duel lasts 6 secnds with aghs.
Pure DPS (after all reductions, excluding desolate and dispersion): 411
Pure DPS (after all reductions, including desolate and dispersion): 776
The first row would apply during BKB duration.
The second applies after BKB ends.
As stated, 411*4,5 adds up to a total of 1850 pure damage dealt from spectre to LC. After those for seconds, spectre's pure damage increases by 365 per second to 776. Meanwhile LC suffers from both decreased DPS (because no Press the Attack) and increased damage taken (because no BKB).
This configuration of spectre reduces all physical damage by 77%, not taking evasion into consideration. That means that your precious 1k crit (with these 1064 dmg to be precise) deals no more than 245 damage.
Meanwhile spectre has 400% higher effective hp than LC, and deals the same damage after reductions. This is even assuming BKB is active, after that spectre's effective damage is 275% higher than that of LC. All this applies within 6,25 seconds.
Just give up man. My calculations are correct and account for the full duration of Aghs duel. Spectre kills LC before the duel ends without even using illusions.
ive actually found ls to be a real match for spec in late game
i think maybe str carrys are the key to beating spec late game....but the tried and tested solution is of course hard laning her with aggressive early game supports and also you have to push and try and end between 25-30
i have raped spec many times in early game only to see her magically out of no where get her items given time and repay the favour
he ult gives her alot of assist gold and the longer the game goes on even with you dominating her she will progress with levels rapidly
pa is not really a problem....before she gets bkb you can just magic nuke her into oblivion
and yea slark really hits pa hard...especially in the early-mid game when pa wont have blur maxed out
the only counter to spec is lane counter and early push....am is kind of like slark when it comes to dealing with spec early game will be good but am cant handle spec
only advantage that am has over slark is that he has much better pushing ability
To everyone arguing about LC and Spectre, just go try it in a lobby and see what happens. Spec rapes most carries in the late game, LC wont even stand a chance. It's a joke really
If anyone wants to counter her, as everyone already said stop her from getting to late game. If you do get to late game, Lifestealer can fight spectre or maybe Sven but keep in mind that while spec is fighting your carry, she can also kill your supports. Best hero I suggest wold be necrophos lane against spectre. He will destroy specs lane and even if things go to late game, an aghs necro would be very dangerous for spectre considering that if she dies to the ult, their team pretty much lost. Spec usually is the primary damage dealer in most teams, without her teamfights are often lost.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahhhhhaahahahahahhaha lc owns anyone lategame under duel that is. she just deletes anyone late game take it or leave it.
data driven decision making improves success rate in virtually any subject. You most likely belive that too since you are on dotabuff.
You will never get to 8k by just masturbating over spreadsheets, true. However its useful to have them to actually check which builds gives more DPS, EHP or whatever in a certain situation. In this case these guys claimed that slark and LC counter spectre given equal farm and past a certain point in the game, which simply isnt true. Her winrate against those heroes are virtually unchanged, for no other reason than the fact that they arent "very good counters" to her. The lockdown from a duel is useful, true. No arguments there, other than there are better ways to deal with her.
Omni, Abbadon, Ursa, Necro, Undying all make her winrate drop by 10-15 percentage points. Chen, Anti-mage, lifestealer etc holds a relative advantage to her in terms of manfighting or ending games fast. Those are hard counters. Not LC and slark. Your flaming doesnt convince, even though you are 2k mmr or more aboe everyone else in this thread.
Why u warship LC so much? Ghost scepter, euls and you can shit on the LC.
+ outside of duel he gets kited, he gets focused down etc.
+ his lategame is gimmicky if you can't get duel damage. If he was so secure like you say assuming 180 dmg every game he would be top pick material in competitive.
+he has no way of coming back. The moment you fall behind and can't take duels
"+he has no way of coming back. The moment you fall behind and can't take duels"
Wrong, a damage item or blademail remedy that. In fact, a glass cannon carry building her next damage item might just doom herself to become duel fodder.
Lel why so mad. Im done with this thread, especially discussing with a drunk american and this miku with le balanced arguments.
In any profession requiring education above high school you dont make decisions based on anecdotal evidence. The same doesnt seem to apply for dota and this forum sadly.
if you get initiated by LC as a 6 slotted spectre you deserve a painfull death
stay in fountain if needed you cant be the first target in lategame scenario as spec, spectre isnt a front line tank youre not fucking medusa, abuse haunt mechanics
all about LC winning vs spectre is legion zoning the shit out of spectre in laning phase and killing her in mid game
"In any profession requiring education above high school you dont make decisions based on anecdotal evidence. The same doesnt seem to apply for dota and this forum sadly."
This is not about anecdotal evidence, it's that your "calculations" don't take a ton of actual practical scenarios/dota mechanics, so it's completely void.
yo every time i see runescape 1v1 duel arena ima post my shitty vid, just a heads up.
also lc is fine vs spec, likely wont win 1v1 late game, but fun fact, if dont get ags on lc, your teamates can drop their shit on spec and ta-da she dies, no MLG super-computations required! commend for 8k analysis ty.
That Trump guy seems more ignorant than Trump himself, if that's even possible. Idk why this is even a discussion anymore, no one here has any solid proof that LC beats Spectre late game at least one person provided numbers proving Spectre wins while all these "pros" talk about their in game knowledge and how LC beats Spectre. Go into a private lobby, try using whatever builds your can and come back here and post a clip when LC beats Spectre.
I started off with a general statement drawing upon experience from ~150 spectre games. Point being that the best counter to spectre is lineups that can push early, or completely fuck her early game. Neither LC nor slark (or any hero with a similar playstyle) does that. At most an offlane LC could slow her down, but it's of limited importance due to the comeback gold.
I also stated that slark and LC can deal with her early on, but that falls off quickly once she gets manta. After that she can escape pounce, she can also buy enough time to activate haunt and reality to somewhere else that is less dangerous. Furthermore, should LC and slark (or some similar hero, eg. Nyx) get some pickoffs on her its still of limited importance, once again due to comeback mechanics and due to the fact that a lineup with ganking/pickoff heroes are not necessarily great at taking objectives. Its crucial to take towers early against a spectre.
Very few of my losses when playing spectre has been against lineups focused on pickoffs, its simply not good enough against her which is reflected on which heroes enjoy a favorable winrate against her. Pickoff heroes are great against squishy heroes that relies on good positioning or blink, such as drow, sniper, antimage, ember, storm, puck etc. Spectre wants to be in the midst of the battle to spread dispersion cancer, she is also one of the tankiest heroes in the game with a few items. She is not reliant on positioning, neither is she easy to burst down whilst under the effects of a duel, a fiends grip, pudge ulti et cetera in a 5v5 fight. Hence, she isnt countered by those types of heroes very well.
Even if she gets focused in a large battle, she can dish out such a substantial amount of damage with haunt, dispersion, radiance and possibly illusions that her team in most cases can wipe the enemies with ease even if spectre dies. What makes her so good is simply that it takes a literal decade to kill her. This would apply to most games that goes past 30 minutes, which is why only pushing strats are really good against her. Ill even give you another graph: http://i.imgur.com/uGxr8MN.png , from this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/43gxjj/ive_just_calculated_statistical_hero_winrates/
As for the calculations.
Users Road to oblivion and Miku Hatsune claimed with utter certainty that this and this hero can manfight a hero given equal farm, with x y z items. Since I knew it simply was not true due to specs amazing EHP, I did the math, instead of like them claim something wthout proof.
So, are the calculations very applicable in a complex game like dota? No, not really. Manfights with those items, without nearby teammates, on those conditions are likely to be rare. However the users claimed a VERY specific thing which, as proven, is false. That is the point, now stop with your imbecille "1v1 r0osh br0".
Similar situations (although usually 3-4 slotted 30+ mins into the game) has been tested in the field numerous times, with similar results. Hence the calculations are not useless, it reveals a lot about her potential for tankiness and dps output.
all the lobby calcs of 1v1 spec vs whoever are fucking stupid because no carry in his right mind will 1v1 spectre late game thus getting shat all over by desolate. Remove desolate, manta illusions hitting for ~200 dmg with desolate and spec will lose to a lot of heroes 1v1. But it doesn't matter cus spec is about her ult and killing all the supports.
LC is still a great counter cus lc is an early hero and spec late game. Just pick early heroes. CK is good too, hit 6, go gank pa and spec.
Yes, yes, however these 2 guys did claim very particular situation and predicted a result that isnt true. Perhaps i should join in with the rest of the forum and write shitty oneliners with nothing to back up my claim.
If someone actually bothered to go through the math, you can see that I did account for her passives being disabled by bkb and/or silver edge. Spectre still has insane damage output and tankyness.
Still, a good spectre dont focuses on manfighting enemy positions 1, rather you want to kill off the rest of the team.
^ Yeah because of someone else's shitty record on Spectre that obviously means that LC better than Spec. Go look at my record against LC, will you change your argument then?
On topic, pugna and lion are good support against spectre because they can kill off the illusion quickly. Pugna is a good pusher as well. Summoner and illusion heroes are good in general too because they can negate desolate to a certain extent.
Razor is the best natural counter to pa. Morphling counter pa too.
make that build to this: mkb, aghs, blink, daedalus, BoT, BkB, Moonshard assuming ~180 duel dmg
i think timber is nice vs spectre, also vs pa. it scales really well with agh in late
Alright, assuming the following:
1. SPECTRE ITEMS:
BoT, Manta, HoT, Skadi, Butterfly, AC, Moonshard (consumed)
2. LC ITEMS
MKB, Aghs, Blink, Daedauls, BoT, BKB, Moonshard (consumed)
3. ASSUMPTIONS
BKB duration is 5 second
LC has 180 bonus dmg
LC has PtA and BKB active when blinking in, but loses roughly 0,5 seconds due to human factor which gives an effective duration for both of 4,5 seconds
Dispersion is included this time
Desolate procs every attack after BKB ends
Moc procs 1 time every 1,57 seconds healing for 85% of attack damage after reductions (77% with armor and dispersion)
Daedalus increases DPS by 36%
Evasion is negated
MoC increases DPS in this case by 50% (no PTA) and 33% (with PTA)*
MoC stacks additively with crit stick, for a total of 86% and 69% dps increase respectively.
Magic resistance is 25% (both heroes)
*= MoC is limited to proccing a maximum of once every 0,8 seconds in 25% of attacks. Given spectres attack speed of 2,54 A/S this means an extra attack once every 1,57 seconds for LC. The DPS increase as a fraction thus relates to LC’s current AS.
4. STATS
4.1 LEGION COMMANDER
Strength: 108.4
Agility: 68.8
Intelligence: 82.8
Armor (AC debuff applied): 7,43
Health: 2812
%Phys Res: 30,83
Physical EHP: 4065,59
Raw Damage: 163 – 167 + 351 = 516
Attack⁄ Sec (with PTA): 1,96
Attack ⁄ Sec (no PTA): 1,26
DPS (before reductions including increases from Moc and crit), with PTA: 1709
DPS (before reductions including increases from Moc and crit), no PTA: 1209
Pure DPS (after all reductions, with PTA): 400
Pure DPS (after all reductions, no PTA): 283
MoC average heal/sec (after all reductions): 66
PtA heal/sec: 60
4.2 SPECTRE
Strength: 162
Agility: 176.8
Intelligence: 116.6
Armor: 29.65
Health: 3808
%Phys Res: 70.46
Physical EHP (with evasion): 25424.22
Physical EHP (without evasion): 16525.6
Raw damage: 199 – 203 + 30=231
Attack ⁄ Sec: 2.54
DPS (before reductions excluding desolate and dispersion): 587
DPS (before reductions including desolate and dispersion**): 1088
Pure DPS (after all reductions, excluding desolate and dispersion): 411
Pure DPS (after all reductions, including desolate and dispersion): 776
Pure DPS (excluding desolate and dispersion, accounting for PtA and MoC heal): 285
Pure DPS (including desolate and dispersion, accounting for MoC heal): 710
Pure DPS*** (including 2 manta illusions with desolate, with MoC heal): 1239
Pure DPS*** (including 2 manta and 1 haunt illusions with desolate, with MoC heal): 1495
**= Assuming LC DPS of 1496 of which 22% is dealt as magic dmg (265 dps before reductions), effectively ~200 pure DPS after taking magic resistance into account
**= Assuming the real spectre is being attacked and thus deal dispersion damage
5. THE DUEL
LC jumps spectre for a 6,25 second duel of which BKB + PtA is active for 4,5 seconds
5.1 FIRST PHASE, with BKB + PTA active
LC raw health, pre duel: 2812
Spectre raw health, pre duel: 3808
LC deals a total of 1800 pure damage
Spectre deals a total of 1850 pure damage
LC Raw health, after 4.5 seconds: 1012
Spectre raw health, after 4.5 seconds: 2008
5.2 SECOND PHASE, no BKB + PTA
After this, spectre gets signicantly stronger and LC significantly weaker
Time for LC to get 0 hp: 1,42 seconds
Time for Spectre to get 0 hp: 7,10 seconds
5.3 THIRD PHASE, after duel
>Spectre has killed LC for 1231 gold!
6. CONCLUSION:
Spectre kills LC in 5,92 seconds and gets +18 duel damage in all circumstances this late into the game, with 5 second bkb and both 7 slotted
If LC should fail to surprise Spectre so that he has time to activate manta (as an avid spectre player I do insist that you have the time for it with good reaction unless LC shifts blink->duel), spectre kills LC in 2,26 seconds. If Spectre is able to haunt as well, LC dies in 1,88 seconds.
Lets toy with another scenario. LC has given up BKB for another moon shard. Spectre haunts to LC and has time to activate manta style. For LC to kill solo kill spectre during this 2,26 second time frame LC would have to dish out 1685 pure dps. With PtA active + the AS from the 1,5 moonshards, this means LC needs to dish out 745 pure damage PER HIT. In other terms, given spectres total dmg reduction of ~77% LC needs –at least – a whopping 1900 duel damage to outcarry spectre in this 1v1 situation. That’s about 105 successful level 3 duels.
You still want to claim that LC > Spectre?
Desolate can't Pierce bkb so does dispersion. Lc crits for 1k dmg It won't even take a full duel duration to kill spec late game. And duel lasts 6 secnds with aghs.
That is accounted for.
Pure DPS (after all reductions, excluding desolate and dispersion): 411
Pure DPS (after all reductions, including desolate and dispersion): 776
The first row would apply during BKB duration.
The second applies after BKB ends.
As stated, 411*4,5 adds up to a total of 1850 pure damage dealt from spectre to LC. After those for seconds, spectre's pure damage increases by 365 per second to 776. Meanwhile LC suffers from both decreased DPS (because no Press the Attack) and increased damage taken (because no BKB).
This configuration of spectre reduces all physical damage by 77%, not taking evasion into consideration. That means that your precious 1k crit (with these 1064 dmg to be precise) deals no more than 245 damage.
Meanwhile spectre has 400% higher effective hp than LC, and deals the same damage after reductions. This is even assuming BKB is active, after that spectre's effective damage is 275% higher than that of LC. All this applies within 6,25 seconds.
Just give up man. My calculations are correct and account for the full duration of Aghs duel. Spectre kills LC before the duel ends without even using illusions.
ive actually found ls to be a real match for spec in late game
i think maybe str carrys are the key to beating spec late game....but the tried and tested solution is of course hard laning her with aggressive early game supports and also you have to push and try and end between 25-30
i have raped spec many times in early game only to see her magically out of no where get her items given time and repay the favour
he ult gives her alot of assist gold and the longer the game goes on even with you dominating her she will progress with levels rapidly
pa is not really a problem....before she gets bkb you can just magic nuke her into oblivion
and yea slark really hits pa hard...especially in the early-mid game when pa wont have blur maxed out
the only counter to spec is lane counter and early push....am is kind of like slark when it comes to dealing with spec early game will be good but am cant handle spec
only advantage that am has over slark is that he has much better pushing ability
To everyone arguing about LC and Spectre, just go try it in a lobby and see what happens. Spec rapes most carries in the late game, LC wont even stand a chance. It's a joke really
If anyone wants to counter her, as everyone already said stop her from getting to late game. If you do get to late game, Lifestealer can fight spectre or maybe Sven but keep in mind that while spec is fighting your carry, she can also kill your supports. Best hero I suggest wold be necrophos lane against spectre. He will destroy specs lane and even if things go to late game, an aghs necro would be very dangerous for spectre considering that if she dies to the ult, their team pretty much lost. Spec usually is the primary damage dealer in most teams, without her teamfights are often lost.
Trump lost Iowa 4Head EleGiggle
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahhhhhaahahahahahhaha lc owns anyone lategame under duel that is. she just deletes anyone late game take it or leave it.
@Trump
data driven decision making improves success rate in virtually any subject. You most likely belive that too since you are on dotabuff.
You will never get to 8k by just masturbating over spreadsheets, true. However its useful to have them to actually check which builds gives more DPS, EHP or whatever in a certain situation. In this case these guys claimed that slark and LC counter spectre given equal farm and past a certain point in the game, which simply isnt true. Her winrate against those heroes are virtually unchanged, for no other reason than the fact that they arent "very good counters" to her. The lockdown from a duel is useful, true. No arguments there, other than there are better ways to deal with her.
Omni, Abbadon, Ursa, Necro, Undying all make her winrate drop by 10-15 percentage points. Chen, Anti-mage, lifestealer etc holds a relative advantage to her in terms of manfighting or ending games fast. Those are hard counters. Not LC and slark. Your flaming doesnt convince, even though you are 2k mmr or more aboe everyone else in this thread.
@Miku
K solid evidence bro.
Why u warship LC so much? Ghost scepter, euls and you can shit on the LC.
+ outside of duel he gets kited, he gets focused down etc.
+ his lategame is gimmicky if you can't get duel damage. If he was so secure like you say assuming 180 dmg every game he would be top pick material in competitive.
+he has no way of coming back. The moment you fall behind and can't take duels
^ u think its lc v 5 ? its already 4v5 once lc initiated ur carry. why do people think its all about the duel dmg.
"+he has no way of coming back. The moment you fall behind and can't take duels"
Wrong, a damage item or blademail remedy that. In fact, a glass cannon carry building her next damage item might just doom herself to become duel fodder.
Lel why so mad. Im done with this thread, especially discussing with a drunk american and this miku with le balanced arguments.
In any profession requiring education above high school you dont make decisions based on anecdotal evidence. The same doesnt seem to apply for dota and this forum sadly.
its not all about theory mate, do it in the field
if you get initiated by LC as a 6 slotted spectre you deserve a painfull death
stay in fountain if needed you cant be the first target in lategame scenario as spec, spectre isnt a front line tank youre not fucking medusa, abuse haunt mechanics
all about LC winning vs spectre is legion zoning the shit out of spectre in laning phase and killing her in mid game
"In any profession requiring education above high school you dont make decisions based on anecdotal evidence. The same doesnt seem to apply for dota and this forum sadly."
This is not about anecdotal evidence, it's that your "calculations" don't take a ton of actual practical scenarios/dota mechanics, so it's completely void.
Well pa is terrible anyone can counter her
Terrorblade for spectre
Lone Druid for pa
yo every time i see runescape 1v1 duel arena ima post my shitty vid, just a heads up.
also lc is fine vs spec, likely wont win 1v1 late game, but fun fact, if dont get ags on lc, your teamates can drop their shit on spec and ta-da she dies, no MLG super-computations required! commend for 8k analysis ty.
That Trump guy seems more ignorant than Trump himself, if that's even possible. Idk why this is even a discussion anymore, no one here has any solid proof that LC beats Spectre late game at least one person provided numbers proving Spectre wins while all these "pros" talk about their in game knowledge and how LC beats Spectre. Go into a private lobby, try using whatever builds your can and come back here and post a clip when LC beats Spectre.
Trump for Iowa!
Since this thread is becoming retarded:
I started off with a general statement drawing upon experience from ~150 spectre games. Point being that the best counter to spectre is lineups that can push early, or completely fuck her early game. Neither LC nor slark (or any hero with a similar playstyle) does that. At most an offlane LC could slow her down, but it's of limited importance due to the comeback gold.
I also stated that slark and LC can deal with her early on, but that falls off quickly once she gets manta. After that she can escape pounce, she can also buy enough time to activate haunt and reality to somewhere else that is less dangerous. Furthermore, should LC and slark (or some similar hero, eg. Nyx) get some pickoffs on her its still of limited importance, once again due to comeback mechanics and due to the fact that a lineup with ganking/pickoff heroes are not necessarily great at taking objectives. Its crucial to take towers early against a spectre.
Very few of my losses when playing spectre has been against lineups focused on pickoffs, its simply not good enough against her which is reflected on which heroes enjoy a favorable winrate against her. Pickoff heroes are great against squishy heroes that relies on good positioning or blink, such as drow, sniper, antimage, ember, storm, puck etc. Spectre wants to be in the midst of the battle to spread dispersion cancer, she is also one of the tankiest heroes in the game with a few items. She is not reliant on positioning, neither is she easy to burst down whilst under the effects of a duel, a fiends grip, pudge ulti et cetera in a 5v5 fight. Hence, she isnt countered by those types of heroes very well.
Even if she gets focused in a large battle, she can dish out such a substantial amount of damage with haunt, dispersion, radiance and possibly illusions that her team in most cases can wipe the enemies with ease even if spectre dies. What makes her so good is simply that it takes a literal decade to kill her. This would apply to most games that goes past 30 minutes, which is why only pushing strats are really good against her. Ill even give you another graph: http://i.imgur.com/uGxr8MN.png , from this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/43gxjj/ive_just_calculated_statistical_hero_winrates/
As for the calculations.
Users Road to oblivion and Miku Hatsune claimed with utter certainty that this and this hero can manfight a hero given equal farm, with x y z items. Since I knew it simply was not true due to specs amazing EHP, I did the math, instead of like them claim something wthout proof.
So, are the calculations very applicable in a complex game like dota? No, not really. Manfights with those items, without nearby teammates, on those conditions are likely to be rare. However the users claimed a VERY specific thing which, as proven, is false. That is the point, now stop with your imbecille "1v1 r0osh br0".
Similar situations (although usually 3-4 slotted 30+ mins into the game) has been tested in the field numerous times, with similar results. Hence the calculations are not useless, it reveals a lot about her potential for tankiness and dps output.
all the lobby calcs of 1v1 spec vs whoever are fucking stupid because no carry in his right mind will 1v1 spectre late game thus getting shat all over by desolate. Remove desolate, manta illusions hitting for ~200 dmg with desolate and spec will lose to a lot of heroes 1v1. But it doesn't matter cus spec is about her ult and killing all the supports.
LC is still a great counter cus lc is an early hero and spec late game. Just pick early heroes. CK is good too, hit 6, go gank pa and spec.
Yes, yes, however these 2 guys did claim very particular situation and predicted a result that isnt true. Perhaps i should join in with the rest of the forum and write shitty oneliners with nothing to back up my claim.
If someone actually bothered to go through the math, you can see that I did account for her passives being disabled by bkb and/or silver edge. Spectre still has insane damage output and tankyness.
Still, a good spectre dont focuses on manfighting enemy positions 1, rather you want to kill off the rest of the team.
Shadow demon seems okay against spectre, hmm. SD enchantress offlane?
so much text
so much maths
ahhhhhhh
a good pick against pa is timbersaw or anyone is a lot of mobility and burst damage
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2086549261
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2074456355
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2059827120
Out of 4 games against LC as spec you lost 3, and the one where you won it was because kunkka abandoned. Great calcs btw
^ Yeah because of someone else's shitty record on Spectre that obviously means that LC better than Spec. Go look at my record against LC, will you change your argument then?
normal skill BrokeBack
Sure call out the guy who has less than half as many games on dota as you have
This thread is a train wreck.
On topic, pugna and lion are good support against spectre because they can kill off the illusion quickly. Pugna is a good pusher as well. Summoner and illusion heroes are good in general too because they can negate desolate to a certain extent.
Razor is the best natural counter to pa. Morphling counter pa too.