General DiscussionCAN VALVE NERF OD AND SPECTRE ALREADY???????????????????

Real counter for OD:
Nyx and Pugna

Real counter for Spec:
Either pick her or hope other team doesn't.

I agree with what you said about Spec though. I destroyed Spec early game. He got 0 farm, and my team had a great early lead. Then, they get a few kills on me (because my team just runs away from fights), and Spec gets a Radiance with the comeback gold, and they win anyways.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2243896820

Every game my team got spec+zeus i won, everytime enemy team got spec+zeus i lost.

k

Yes, special 4 u

Good solid play can win vs Spec/OD of course there are challenges but I think in some cases people are just lazy and don't want to work so hard for won team fights. Obviously these heroes are strong there's no denying and no, Nyx is not a complete counter to OD.

Sven has been a popular pick up vs Spectre and actually is significantly better IMO. OD can be beaten by a number of heroes but in a 1v1 there are few that can compete, but you'd be dumb to try to 1v1 a OD so i dunno what the issue is.

@Elduryb

With your and your teammates itembuilds you deserve nothing else then getting destroyed by crystalys spectre.....brown boots octarine on bristle, really? How is that EVER good...

Draft a disgusting aggro - tri. Murder the spectre and her supports, let the snowballing carry in the aggro get more kills, end fast. Spectre gets dumpstered everytime. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2239098327

At 250gpm on spectre I'm not feeling the comeback mechanics here.

Only normal skill but same strat:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2240083863

Use Phoenix

OD is strong only with decent team , there are no real counter for OD ... but yea pugna hv advantage over OD early game , but u cant stop a decent OD alone..
OD cant carry game alone http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2233181559 , http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2237150757
spec have real strong comeback potential but weak in lane , all you hv to do is dominate his lane and pray ur team carry farm well...

Spec stops being broken when you realize you can end the game 15mins in

^^This. But it does not happen in mid-low 4k.

every patch there's going to be standout heroes
so stfü and deal with it

just beat a spectre with 1000 matches (normal kill tho).
sven and puck are good ways to beat her, imo.

i like poo

I won vs a spec OD omni once

xD

With Spectre, its not about stomping her in lane. To stop her your mid game fights have to go well so she has no way to haunt in and pick off people. If you win midgame fights, which should be possible since its 4 vs 5, spectre can do nothing but slowly rightclick creeps and hope you don't end.

Become the rat of legend lore

Somebody picked Spectre now I wanna go cry to my mommy.

Lol jk

If enemy has invoker or od just pick zeus and ask your teammate to go for spectre.

LC for spec

Just watch it few minutes ago when those shits are on the same team (6k avg match)

I think Lycan is the answer to those 2

OD cant kill you when you are bkb'd, he also cant do shit if hes in a chrono.

Spec on the other hand, has to get raped in lane and then you end the game before 30, if both of those dont happen, you lose.

Sven is kitable, but you need to stop his stacks, either block it or fight for it.

Spec and invoker are the worst, OD not quite as bad.

I always pick OD when enemy team pick spectre. And I always win, they got no comeback they're just nothing. Games end 35-40 min.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2244529470

This is how you counter spectre

Play Ursa

4k6

Omni+OD, Zeus+Spec. Just deny courier in beginning, buy both wards, lay them in tower range so mid can kill them, then proceed to walk down middle 15-20 times until your throne is dead.

PS. Make sure you are buying a new courier to feed every 3 minutes.

I dont understand people saying that spectre is op. He is almost the same hero he used to be for years. Very team reliant.

pik doooom bringer

Pick pushers + AOE and don´t let spectre farm. If you end game in 20 minutes, spectre will not get a chance to comeback.
Very important is to get all Tier 1-2 towers in 15 minutes what is possible. After that spectre will not get a chance to farm = gg.
Just keep pushing and ganking.
Spectre is reliable on supports, wards and space to farm.

According to dotabuff, jug has the easiest time against spec(not strongest on spectre's page, but on jug page most advantagious against spec), carry-wise everything with illusions pl(can't kill all or kill him) am(illusions prevent desolate), lifestealer (strong manfighter), meepo(well...meepo), as far as i know also morph, cuz morph can use spectre illusion(which is strong, especially when morph farms near creeps, spectre comes with radiance and morph doesn't get desolated, because of the creeps, but can desolate her, when her creeps aren't around, for further information about morph against spec, watch purge's replay commentary of spec, is rather new); And support-wise everything that can pressure Chen Undying Io(for relocate ganks) Oracle(i guess you can get one glasscannon to kill spec and keep that one alive till spectre is dead), and of course balanced-spirit(because balanced and shit)
Sry for bad english

^Also spectre has a disadvantage against about 75% to heroes according to dotabuff, many very minor, but very many devastating advantages, due to spectre being so one-dimensional

^^ just realized that spectre still has ridiculous winrate against many of the supposed dotabuff counters, but i guess you can just reduce her high winrate to something easier to deal with? Also OMNI 55% winrate against her.

+1 xD

Sven for spec

can u shut the fuck up ?

slark

OD is op af, I didn't even play the hero before, and after 63 games of him i'm 64% winrate and got from 3.3 to 3.9 by spaming him mostly.

Free mmr. Play as much as you can until it gets nerfed, cuz it will.

And he's also easy to play

balance in all things kappa :
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2241803934
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2239353573
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2243941095

a fucking carry that can online from very early , not rare to find a match with him at the end 20ish kills. balanced

I got to 4.1K recently, I don't like spamming OD or Invoker, or Spectre, cause i'm just not good with them, so I just use a wide hero pool. I can agree on the OD getting 20-+ kills every game, maybe I should just sit down and learn him and Spectre before it's too late.

Just pick Beastmaster or LC, pretty damn good vs both.

ＰＬＳ  ＮＥＲＦ  ＳＰＥＣＴＲＥ  ＩＡＭ  ＡＦＫ  ＦＡＲＭＩＮＧ  ＪＵＮＧＬＥ  ＬＥＧＩＯＮ  ＷＨＥＮ  ＳＨＥ  ＳＰＯＯＫＳ  ＭＥ  ＬＩＫＥ  ＨＯＬＹ  ＳＨＩＴ

Nothing to learn. Pick, own mid, press Q, press ult, win game, repeat

OD counter is ganking mid early and picking omni so he doesnt get omni

Spectre counter is building early advantage by shutting down everyone around her then pushing fast and/or picking sven

spectre was nerfed lol all of a sudden people are complaining because badman gained a lot of mmr with her.
She had a last will ability and also a 25-sec terrain walking ability before.... not to mention a 16% damage reflection proc (when maxed)
haunt Illusions used to take only 10% damage and deal 100%. So technically, you killed with illusions then. and it had an inbuilt stun, duration was 16-28.

OD is a bit OP, tho.

But with a crap team which you have a 99% chance of getting in India/SEA, there's a fair chance you'll lose with them.

Don't nerf OD and Spectre, just nerf Sniper, Juggernaut and Axe pls.

the problem is , now we have comeback mechanic gold for spectre. and we know spectre just haunt for join teamfight or easy kill secure for that big money, and like not other hard carries , spectre with urn + drum can fight early well.

and OD , idk only weakness OD has is : cannot destroy tower fast , only that

Just nerf Sniper Jugg and Axe pls

Spectre is the same hero she always was, is just the meta that is favoring her, she doesn't need nerfs.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2246302496