I never got iron talon and almost cut my wrist when a player on my team did axe iron talon jungle
go offlane with axe and win offlane. there is no reason to jungle anymore with shrines and more runes now
I never got iron talon and almost cut my wrist when a player on my team did axe iron talon jungle
So you're judgemental of your teammates despite being really bad at dota and lacking the understanding regarding things like efficiency? Because tangos iron talon was the go-to build in order to get min 4 level 6, and then be able to take stacked hard camps early, talon made quelling blade on Axe viable, and made it possible for him to REALLY flash farm the jungle.
go offlane with axe and win offlane. there is no reason to jungle anymore with shrines and more runes now
There are lanes in which you can't farm well, or contest them at all. In that case it's actually preferred to completely sack the offlane maybe in some cases let a support occupy it for a while, go to the jungle, and walk into the lane at 4 minutes when you're level 6. But people with a 1k brain will just go to an unwinnable offlane and feed like retards.
Funny @nom when I replied to you before on my other account that is 4K you didn't say I was bad, don't judge off of mmr dumbass hoe. You never go iron talon jungle Bc you have NOTHING if you get ganked, you have no stout shield to at least try to help get away from a gank.
If you say something stupid, it's still stupid. Saying that talon tangos start is bad is stupid, it was done in competitive. It's like saying pos 4 mirana is bad, despite the fact it's viable and powerful.
Also axe is going to be low HP with or without stout shield, and it won't help too much against a gank if people get on top of you. It's risky either way, so you might as well actually try being efficient, you're already greedy, might as well try to make it pay off. Talon gives you 2 armor, so you aren't exactly squishy either way.
Also, when a 2.6k player says he cringes at his teammates doing stupid shit, yet he says something worse, it's an instant red flag. I don't care if you're 4k, 4ks are shit too. Obviously I am shit too, but I try not to say stupid shit that can instantly be proven to be wrong. If it's obvious that high tier players can utilize a certain type of a build/play/hero/whatever, I can't say it's bad because it is really not. Refer to the post where kitrak shat on triplesteal- if you want to see what I mean.
But on topic, I don't know how good axe talon is in this patch, didn't pay much mind to it.
Comparing competitive to pub is actually retarded. Do you play dota?
Anytime I ever hear some dumbass say that a pub is in anyway comparable to a pro game I know you are ass lmao.
There was a Lina jungle in pro scene, that does not make it good, there was a techies pudge in pro scene, that does not make it good.
Have fun when you see miracle going tide mid then ruin other games and let the other people know " a pro did it"
If you are comparing iron talon axe to lina jungle you're the one that's a dumbass because there was quite a lot of axe jungling in competitive (and high tier pubs, mind you). If you're comparing wings techies pudge game to a tried strategy, you're a dumbass. Placing tide mid has been done before and there are proper reasons for that but it's done under specific circumstances.
But saying that pros putting tide mid and axe going iron talon jungle is equally different in pro and pub play shows how much of a dumbass you are.
And if anything, everything is infinitely more viable the lower the MMR of a pub is (except teamplay), so saying that axe talon isn't viable or good enough for a 4k pub is completely laughable if people have easily pulled it off in competitive and 7k avg games.
Smh boy get better at dota, and have fun when you are standing in the jungle with iron talon and tangoes and the enemy feeds off of you.
The legit jungle build would be stout shield, ring of protection protection, your counter helix is most of your damage anyway and the additional damage block has helped me with many early ganks. Maybe when you jungle you can sit there afk while the enemy lets you free farm. Come on boy
And also since you edited your comment, you compared a pub axe jungle iron talon to a pro game where a axe went iron talon, you took that out of your edit, don't act slick. That is why I said you cannot compare pub games to pro games. Check yourself fam
Somebody picks axe for dominate offlane or to counter certain hero like brood. I always go stout shield ring of protection and tangos. Rush tranquil and keep farming till blink rotate a bit.
I don't act slick and I don't know what you're referring to, I actually shortened the post because I didn't want to ramble about the reasons tide might be placed mid in a certain scenario, I didn't remove anything about axe, if anything you're lying right now, but I hope you just misread something.
I shouldn't be triggered by a 2.6k retard anyway, I am not even sure I should believe you have a 4k account right now.
Somebody picks axe for dominate offlane or to counter certain hero like brood. I always go stout shield ring of protection and tangos. Rush tranquil and keep farming till blink rotate a bit.
Obviously you are not getting talon if you're laning, but you won't be laning against something like sd/mirana/luna trilane, you'd just get shat on, then you go jungle.
My other acc is the positive teammate I talked to you about the afk lc junglers.
You legit don't know what you're talking about fam since you don't jungle axe. Tired of
Kids posting on shit they don't know.
You lost all credibility when you said you didn't really pay attention to axe iron talon jungle. Don't post on a thread where you have no information on. That's like me posting on a thread asking help for mid, I don't play mid so I cannot give an input on it.
I never got iron talon and almost cut my wrist when a player on my team did axe iron talon jungle
I assumed this was referring to previous patches (since the introduction of talon), because you said "never", which would imply talon axe was never good, and I know for sure it WAS good. Not sure how good it is now. And I've watched 7k streamers and pro games where axe does just that. There's zero reason why I'd take the word of somebody who is 2.6k or ~4k over that, unless they're referring to pro or high MMR play.
If I don't play SD, I can still say that maxing poison is dumb in majority of games, because I never see good players doing it. You'd be able to argue for it all you want, but it's obviously inferior in most cases, if good players (5k+) don't do it.
Axe has a 3% higher win rate in the off lane (https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/axe). Play him there instead. Jungling just feels so obsolete in this patch.
But you're still gonna jungle him if you can't form a dual lane, and they have a trilane that you can't do anything about. As I said, something like SD/luna/mirana or something similar. If they have a weak ass dual lane that you're good against, then sure, there's zero reason to jungle since that's a lane you can actually contest and probably dominate.
Btw if you pay attention to guides, people win games left and right, going either build, stout first, talon first, lots of regen first, no talon, no regen until tranqs (possibly abusing shrines), etc. Maybe talon is still okay, but it can't be as good as it used to be. As it seems right now, many things are viable, time will tell what's actually really good.
BTW, winning games with jungle axe in 4k doesn't qualify you to know what's good or not, as much as 700 games of (mostly all) jungle legion doesn't qualify me to know what's good or not. But watching (and learning from) better players, does.
Slang as in I never understood iron talon axe jungle.
You just sound so dumb, it's hard to read your shit at this point
Well, then the problem is that you're too stupid. See, this 5.4k player understood it. He bought a talon at 2min, after stout shield, admittedly, but he still got it (and this is 7.00 which majority of my posts was hardly referring to).
@nom nom nom nom nom, ‘Incidentally if you pay attention to guides, people win games left and right, going either build, stout first, talon first, much regen first, no talon, no regen until tranqs (possibly abusing shrines), etc. Maybe talon is still fine,’
Not really. Iron talon has a 30.12% win rate on Axe, which is awful.
@incest-chan: I seriously, seriously hope that you're trolling. That only measures what you end the game with, not whether you bought it. Else tangos would have about 50% winrate.
@nom nom nom nom nom, you taught me something new today. I just cited the statistics without checking the rest.
Though, it still has a lower win rate than off lane Axe. If the off lane is too hard, the team probably could have drafted better.
There's a difference between drafting a jungler and having somebody forced to jungle. In axe's case, you can jungle for the first 4 minutes, and then go to a lane with your exp advantage, you can stay in jungle until you get your blink if the game's very passive and you can't get easy kills, or you can start off in the lane and be forced to jungle. There are lots of scenarios and it isn't always the same, but yeah, when you successfully draft axe to ruin the enemy's safelane, it's the preferred game condition for you.
what makes me always wonder is.... despite axe can contest or not, most of my axes never consider try to contest to lane first. and not understand we need fucking 2nd support and you cannot farm efficiently in offlane benefit other lane because your 2 support can go roam or helping another lane
^promo code
Really man, when it comes to reasoning and using data and arguments nom nom just rekt you this time. I mean, if you can't reason then it will be really hard for you to read or create anything that contains a coherent stream of thoughts. Just calm down and read the discussion once again, you'll see it, if you don't, then there is no point in discussing with you ; )
Though, we are discussing Iron Talon Axe junglers, meaning the player decided to jungle from the start.
If the game was that passive, Axe could just lane.
I check a few of the Axe matches on Dota buff and Axe jungle is always around 20 xp behind the enemy safe lane core at 4 minutes. There is no xp advantage given he does not get early kills or assists. If Axe jungles, the support can just roam and fuck the rest of the team.
ok im not sure why you guys are fighting about whether iron talon was good, because last patch it was. If you were going to solo offlane vs a high disable trilane you would just feed, so you start talon and still get decent farm.
not sure if you still get talon in 7.0 though, the cd was the most important thing for axe and it got nerfed bad.
So I guess it's situational?
Ppl argue so much about this because item builds and play styles for a hero are rarely one size fit all. (Except dominator Sven pre 7.00, rip Sven)
Person A may be thinking about one scenario, a groups of similar scenarios.
Person B may be thinking about different scenarios.
It would be helpful to state what kind of scenarios you guys are talking about to facilitate which build is more viable generally. The more scenarios a build can cover, the more viable (arguably) it is.
Jungle is bad better in line , BUT if You FEED in the line You Better Jungle
No reason if you feed a carry and u stay at line better u go jungle,
Some Reason For carry, If your safelane in danger u better go jungle at least is better than take no farm at all
i mean ofc its situational whether or not you jungle or lane but if you are going jungle, there is usually a optimal item build, im just not sure what is it atm.
go offlane even if it's an unwinnable lane
you got shrines now, your job is to make their supports waste time and not gank other lanes. if you manage to do that, then you won your lane.
Anyways, jungle is retarded
and only retards think it's a viable substitute for a lane.
only do it if it's a lane where you'd walk in and die at first wave.
and for that you just do suicide jungling to get lvl 2-3 in the first minutes and die to neutrals and TP to lane
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before 7.0 you could jungle and get 6 before 4 mins regardless of spawns and a blink and tranqs by 6-7 mins, but they nerfed talon cd and made it so you cant stack as often BUT they gave us bounty runes and a shrine.
SO, do you still get talon? or just rush vang asap to do all the ancients and get blink by 10ish? or is jungle axe just bad since offlane is easier now?
His talents are great, that +75 dmg at lvl 15 shit is amazing, i hope to see this hero in more pro games.