AM : teams punish his weak lane/ long farm time to choke of the map and starve his team until they just steam roll to high ground
Slark: High mmr buys sentries and dust to stop his bullshit .Also counter picks not allowing him to snowball.
What kind of counterpicks? Am? xd
Mr. Bored can u explain urself pls? My low mmr mind cant figure it out
Isnt Blink Dagger on Slark preferred by higher mmr players rather than the classic Shadow Blade?
Isnt Blink Dagger on Slark preferred by higher mmr players rather than the classic Shadow Blade?
definitely not
u just need to wait til u see pact go off and ez kill. basically 2 of his 3 escape abilities are nullified by aoe stuns and by standing in front of him (forcing him to leap at you)
Ever played am where the enemy team pushes as 15 minutes? Or ever played am when you are vs a cancer offlane?
Decent players do that, and punish even more.
That is why am is terrible majority of games.
THAt being said, he can be a perfect pick for some games.
ever saw an am player who had 12 min battlefury in jungle? or one who got meele rax by splitpushing, traded rax and won the game single handedly?
happens as often in 5k+ as an am who feeds endlessly
am works wonders if they have shit catch on you or just bad to defend against splitpush in general
Faceless Void rapes them both...I read a while back that fv is in the top 5 picked by 5k+ players.
Dotabuff says otherwise
Well I am not exactly 5k player but with AM and slark, I have a lot of bad losing experience playing against them (getting picked off like crazy by slark and cumbacked by 6slotted am) so when I see those heroes for sure I will try my best to counter them.
Because both, like pa, have huge snowballing potential but can be shut down hard if countered, which is what high skill players are really good at.
yeah i feel like carries who really need that 1 item to work (slark sb, am bfury) really feel horrible this patch if u shut them down from geting that item in good timing. but idk just observation.
they are both go from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. either very meh and get shutdown hard, or snowball and become super annoying to deal with.
but right now they are kinda easy to shut down in lane.
Every 5k+ will say that Slark and Am are bad right now, but they forget that those picks are still strong in lower brackets. Even up to middle 4ks, since enemies know to pressure you on lane, but forget to finish early.
Dunno what all this: "Just shut him down in lane", bullcrap is. Every hero is trash if you shut them down in the laning stage. AM and Slark are perfectly fine in certain situations. They sit both at close 50%. As an AM you can deal with alot of solo offlaners ez. Many offlaner rely on their mana and guess what you can drain.
They are both shut down by duall offlanes, if you dont have a strong trilane support, so they are (like every other hero in dota): SITUATIONAL.
There are more situations where a troll fits in, than an AM. Troll sits on 51% winrate, Antimage on 49% winrate in 5k+. Juggernauts winrate is lower than ams and yet jugger does not get so much hate. Same goes for Luna, lifestealer.
Just gif an enemy team with little single target lockdown (for example dazzle, veno support) and show me how you want to catch the antimage and stop him from farming.
AM is just harder to play, since he is more vulnerable for missplays. He just relies on not dying and finding farm. You just remember more feeding AMs, cuz if an am starts feeding, he will feed rly hard.
Ever got rekt by an Invoker? He sits on 45% ~ in ALL Brackets.
Maybe its not the hero, its the lack of skill?
Only sven is kinda broken right now, cuz he can do so much with so little and still stays relevant in all game stages with AOE stun, built in flashfarm, imba armor and so good use of MOM.
^
thats cuz you havent played in a bracket where people pick and play to win. at 4k flat games i play midlane visage and go 20+ kills doesnt mean its good
Dunno what all this: "Just shut him down in lane", bullcrap is. Every hero is trash if you shut them down in the laning stage.
not every hero. some heroes are less lane dependent. and some heroes are just not as bad laners.
almost no one at 5k+ will bother shutting down an AM in the laning phase, they'll shut down the midlaner/offlaner because they know the supports need to babysit am a lot
so at 10+ minutes they start taking your towers and prevent you from finishing bfury fast
weak laners and you're just gonna be hunted down while playing am and with slark idk this hero just feels weak af when you play him.
@nami
Hard to argue facts isn't it. AM sits on 49% winrate, Troll on 51%, Jugger on 47% in 5k+. 49% is not "low". Slarks 45% winrate is kinda "low". And why would no 5k bother shutting down AM int he laning phase? If the enemy runs a solo bristleback or tide they simply wont shut down the AM, since they have no mana. You need a manaindependant offlaner, an offlaner with good burst or more than 1 hero offlane to shut down antimage.
My max MMR was 4.8 k. It was some while ago, but AM was still playable. Just dont pick him early, so enemy does not run a duallofflane and you are fine.
@get me out
And yet you sit on 62% Winrate on AM. I sit on 75% this patch and 4.3k mmr IR.
The point was (maybe you did not understand me)
Both argue that AM is not viable, while @getmeout sits on 62% winrate on Antimage, wich is cleary contrary to the statment he made (AM Is viable). He himself is the perfect example of AM beeing viable.
I made a statment on the viablity of antimage in flat-middle 4k. Also the metastats show: "Antimage is viable". I didnt want to state:
"I am a better antimage than he is."
I just stated, that arround 4k MMR antimage is perfectly fine, also shown by the metastats.
Even in the 5k+ bracket, a bracket most players will NEVER reach, AM is statistically viable. So how about starting to use facts for your arguments, instead of repeating the same bullshit over and over again. And thats the point where the discussion ends:
Antimage is not weak and has not a low winrate in 5k+, while slark has.
"If you shut AM down in lane he is crap." Thats true for every carry hero, while many carrys dont even have an escape, so they are easy to gank.
A 49% winrate in 5k+ makes a hero somehow balanced.
Also:
There are certain scenarios, where antimage destroys the enemy. Lack of disables, high mana cost spells and you will make your enemy cry.
you don't just look at the winrate to determine if a hero is viable. you need to look at pick rate too. one of the most perplexing thing is seeing a high pickrate and sub50 winrate. but there's a good reason for that
Pickrate 9,22% winrate 49%. Thats not a high pickrate. Winrate is fine. Next. Btw. can you gif me your account? I want a 1k mmr account so badly.
I'm not high skill whatever, but I have a friend I talk to about this stuff who's 5.9k and I watch a 6.2k small steamer alot so while I'm not good I feel competent enough to answer. Slark gets domboed by a lot of heroes that are meta + there's a simple playstyle that just beats slark no matter the draft. So all and all slark sucks. AM has 0 <-- that much presence in a dota game until like 20 minutes. By this time he has likely been pinched out of one of his jungles and his ungodly timer is now longer. At the time am comes online fully there's a team hitting your rax w/ aegis and cheese. Late game non-scaling heroes are just bad right now.
Edit: This sounds like I'm saying am is terrible, but he's not always. He does however either require 4 protect 1 strats or neglect from the other team. Both are less common in high skill games, but happen
AM is too slow (takes too long time to build up). He gets countered by push strats.
i see you are not kinda understanding the point. you cannot compare 2 carries winrate if one has low pick rate, and the other (like jugg) has a high pickrate.
you were trying to use that to show that AM is viable, because 49% is basically not that bad, because it is close enough to troll's 51. and you also think am's winrate is good considering jugg also has <50. but you're ignoring that he is not even picked that often as those 2 heroes. what does that tell you if he is sub 50 when he is not picked often.
if we're talking win rates does this mean I should spam slark cuz I have 70%+ win rate with him in the ~ last month? this hero fucking sucks.
Dunno what all this: "Just shut him down in lane", bullcrap is. Every hero is trash if you shut them down in the laning stage. AM and Slark are perfectly fine in certain situations. They sit both at close 50%. As an AM you can deal with alot of solo offlaners ez. Many offlaner rely on their mana and guess what you can drain.
am and slark have far weaker lanes than whatever comparable carry currently like troll jugg ursa, so shutting down in lane is a more feasible solution for both of them
The main reason they both suck is because every darn game of dota is now group up and push asap and the only thing they can do is try to out push a team of 5 who are hunting down 4 guys trying to hopelessly face a team of 5. How's AM supposed to defeat any hero with 10 mins of farm better than say, Jugg, Luna, Lifestealer, Ursa, or Troll? Most of them can push just as good as, if not better than AM. Same with Slark really. They may look scary once they start snowballing but they can't stand up to the 5 man pubtrain meta thats been going on for the past 3000 yrs.
bs is good if enemy has dp or other movement dependent hero, liquid shown that today
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I am eager for insights of high mmr players about this
Both of heroes are quite strong 'classic' carries, isnt it?