I really prefer echo over sny because Sven is really more of a burst hero that tries to do as much as possible during his 2 second stun.
Echo gives u a quicker power spike. Often times u need a quicker power spike. Just go echo first
Ah ok thanks guys! But is there a reason y Miracle always goes SNY instead of echo? Is it his farm is just so insane that it doesnt matter that much.
SnY became more popular since MoM became meta, since MoM already gives a ton of attack speed, so a lot of people found echo sabre redundant.
Its more that sny became relevant and it kinda does the same thing as echo. If sny becomes a good and relevant item it will always become relevant on sven. I always thought ppl went back to echo because Mom became core and u don't need the movt and Attack speed.
Sny is better late game and makes u sustain better in team fights cuz u r tankier and faster and harder to kite. Play style factors into this. I suggest u don't try to overanalyze why miracle does something. He goes diffusal am and the reasoning is something a 2-3k never need to know to win their games.
The major difference between echo and sny is that echo only slows the enemies for a bit on cooldown, while sny can proc with every attack (and MoM gives you a lot of chance for this), while your own movement speed is increased. Being fast can be really important against some heroes that you have no chance of bursting down in 2 seconds. Another thing echo has over SnY is mana regen, obviously, but you are likely to go for orchid-bthorn anyways.
If you can burst everyone in 2 seconds, it almost doesn't matter what you buy as long as they are good Sven items.
^this is true. So often times u don't need sny because u burst ppl down easily. And it's not worth delaying your power spike for sny.
You won't always get to initiate, and you won't always get a perfect scenario where you burst everyone down, and then DON'T get kited and die. Echo Sabre doesn't really help you past the initial burst in that scenario, and that can be your undoing, Sven is a really fucking slow hero, and this can be a real problem. With SnY you have much more room for error and being initiated on isn't as dangerous (well, unless they have some shit like BS, BM or anything that would absolutely immobilize you in general).
If you can't initially get to hit stuff, having SnY is a godsend, because it opens up the possibility of chasing people down. If you initiate, having Echo is better for the first 2 seconds since it gives you an extra attack. But if you have MoM it's kind of dubious, Echo doesn't give you THAT much DPS in that scenario, getting an early crystals arguably gives you more burst, actually.
Haha so iam confused now... seems like you guys are saying echo is good but SNY is also good. So which should I get? Or in which situations should i get SNY and which situations should i get echo? Or just skip echo for a blink?
RPQ-Sama told me to go Mom > Sny in a game and it totally worked, I didn't even play with Blink dagger that game and we won, then other game I went same build and it worked again, I really like this build way more than the standard blink dagger echo sabre build.
There are games when you absolutely must get a blink/sb because you cannot run in to hit people and stun them before they react. However, if they don't have anything to stop you from running in from fog/trees, SnY is vastly superior to blink+echo in many ways.
SnY became more popular since MoM became meta, since MoM already gives a ton of attack speed, so a lot of people found echo sabre redundant.
no
Lot of changes,lots of good stuff and items on that hero,specially a buff on him in 7.06, but not as good as before since his skills and items (MoM im talking to you!) are now nerfed
In terms of itemization,it's been arguably stated that what is a better pickup,an SnY or an E.Sabre?Well,most early builds are treads and an MoM,after that,God Strength,eat stacks of ancients thanks to your good'ol supports that you have (Well except in my server because SEA supports are just warding and protecting you,but not stacking so that is kinda bummer and for that i build domi so that i can stack myself)
E.Sabre-Strength stat and a mana regen plus an echo attack and slow.
-In terms of helping in farm speed,it's just good
-Advantage:Helps you to burst attack in just two hits.Easy to obtain in cheap price.
-Disadvantage:Doesnt give you the opportunity to slow more,relies on cooldown of the slow
Sny-A bonus strength stats,agility,movement speed,attack speed and a maim which slows your opponent down
-In terms of helping in farm speed,same as echo but imo echo is faster thanks to the two attack bonus
-Advantage:Slows your opponent with a higher chance and makes Sven hard to kite plus can be disassembled and turn Sange to Halbeard in order to disarm hard hitters/carries
-Disadvantage:Easy to obtain too although far more expensive.Doesnt have any mana regen to casts stun more or warcry
So,they are both good on that hero,if you know there are enemies that can kite you?SnY is a good pickup.But if you want to burst them down in just 2 hits then Echo is your choice
But if you are super fast farmer and you know you can obtain it quickly,try both
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I have noticed that pros such as Miracle will usually go SNY after mom while other pros will go echo after mom. I understand that Miracle is very good and his supports will stack camps for him so his farm will be much faster than me. Considering I am at around 3K MMR range, should I go echo then blink rather than SNY since it allows me to be more aggressive earlier. I estimate that his SNY + blink timing is roughly around the same timing as my echo + blink timing :(