General Discussionwho can abuse KAYA

Lesh for sure
Timber
Storm maybe

Skymage

looks like it would be decent on any heavy caster hero that can afford to leave a slot for it and can get it at a reasonable time

storm needs bs/orchid, zeus needs regen beforehand, so I wonder how it'd work, someone mentioned caster sf but I don't like the idea because it's turning a hero that hits buildings into a hero that is shit at hitting buildings in general

let's wait for items called sange and kaya and kaya and yasha and then we'll figure who it fits lul

^Oh shit now you mention it
I just remembered back in HoN they have the INT saber too
And you can combine with the two other saber to make the ultimate Dawnbringer

And like Yasha can be made into Manta or Sange can be made into Halberd
The Lightbrand can be upgraded into Grimoire

Whats mana cost/mana loss reduction?

Casting spells cost less mana.
And if AM or anyone with Mana Break hits you, you lose less mana too.

i think the problem with the mana loss reduction is that heroes that take away your mana usually do it really fast and lock you down in some way (usually by slowing you)

I don't think it's going to be very effective except maybe against EMP and mana drain, I don't see it being useful against heroes who can just keep attacking you anyways

then again diffusal is NOW COUNTERED BY GHOST STATES

I thought I would never write that sentence, but since it no longer dispels anything, ghost scepter counters diffusal because people can't hit you to take away your mana if you're ghosted

...isn't it pretty self explanatory?

Your spells cost 10% less mana to cast and heroes who can burn mana will burn 10% less of it.

Edit: Nevermind, 2 people posted it before me.

i suppose i will buy it on lion coz i need to play a greedy pos4 lion now coz of talent changes.

Lina and Sky could really use this too. I often don't have enough mana for their ults.
In a way, mana cost reduction is like mana pool.

I mean, this is obviously insane on OD.

Nope, OD doesn't worry about mana at all after level 3 Essence Aura.

how about storm tho

he has a percentage based mana cost spell, reducing that percentage by 10% would let you jump farther, right?

not sure if it is worth it at the time you get it tho, it's kind of a "win more" item when you'd prefer to just get your treads bs orchid asap and rape people anyways, I don't think it really helps when you're behind or cannot even get your core items

its so slot inefficient but this + lens on tinker is ridiculous. you have way more mana to play around with

if it even becomes combinable with SNY it might be good on dusa, the 10% mana shit works on her shield

^I am 100% sure valve will find the way to include it in combinations with yasha and sange but the way I see it right now it just doesn't seem that good on right clicking cores, even though some might benefit from it a lot

imagine shadowfiend with a sny-like item but with this snuck into, granted the item would cost 6k gold but it'd add up to some amazing bonuses, he'd be pretty good at right clicking but his nukes would also be really good and cheap

as singsing said "dota is basically dota imba now"

I just watched the monkeys twitch. That new hammer is just op. One hammer and takes 30% of tower. This is insane with kotl with 350 cast range on lvl 15.

u can pick nyx and stun from vendetta -> hammer and do 700 magical damage xd

really good on veno

I think int yasha or sange should be pure dmg (10 %) conventer. So anyone can buy it.

sange and yasha are kind of niche items in that they are best built on heroes with corresponding attributes, and the int sword should not be different

when combined however the idea is that they could have the potential to be built on any hero regardless of many things

int heroes never get SnY for that reason - no int sword

the only int hero that used to get SnY back in dota 1 (but a really really long time ago) was silencer, because he didn't really need the int, he just needed a way to keep hitting shit and attack speed was nice

um this is pretty good on zeus
pugna
even tho zeus wants regen this is kinda like a veil replacement, it has 100% uptime and it gives u more mana to play with
maybe dp
maybe mid jakiro
u cud do something with ember but i doubt it
mid aa?
skywrath
u cud probably solo roshan with this and veil on underlord
maybe viper gets it now

i think for a lot of the things i mentioned, it wud need an sny like buildup to work

Would the mana loss apply to percentage base mana cost spells like ball if lightning and unrefined blast?

Anyways dark willow and tinker sound good

Take into account that this is a very cheap item, so the pool that this is viable on may be very wide

it is not cheap at all because most caster heroes need to get other items to begin with

veil improves your damage in a more bursty sense but only works for magical damage

aether provides all the regen you will need

you likely want a force staff or ghost scepter to survive

if you're storm you want bloodstone, if you're qop you want orchid/veil

we still have to figure how/when to fit it into the build

another reason it is not cheap is that it costs one slot

OD orb damage is calculated after you use mana, so lower mana cost helps. and the spell amp is very good i thinks.

I mean with these new changes this item would even be viable on Shadow Fiend caster build with which you can do 570 damage per raze, with ~30% spell amp, Eblade and over 50% Cooldown Reduction.

I still think this is going to be a core on tinker (and that would close his 6 slots, BoT, soul ring, blink, lens, kaya, scepter)
It would allow him to cycle more before going back to base, would amplify his burst (more reliably than veil) and overall seems like a great item on him

good on jakiro, silencer, witch doctor, oracle, leshrac, lina.

good item on pos 5, but not so much on pos 1 / 2.

^^^Then OD should use that 2k gold to buy Midas, Blink Dagger, Pike or anything that make him hits faster, that's more DPS and INT steal. Hell, even the 7.06 Aether Lens is better on OD than this Kaya.

@Frank Pos 5 should leave the damage to the cores and build utility instead

That's the whole fucking problem, it's like steroid item for INT heroes, but it's 2k gold and there are tons of better items to get instead of steroid on INT caster heroes which won't scale and you'll probably sell soon.
Unless they launch new items that it can be upgraded into, it's just not worth the slot.

Sange and kaya?
Kaya and yasha?

Sky?

Kayaking

Its not very useful tbh. Lens is better for most casters because it actually gives regen (much better than cost reduction) and veil for ones that dont need lens. I can only see leshrac buying this.

how do u have slots with tinker for this

Instead of bottle

howtonoob6

u dont but u buy it anyway xD

dont forget lens doesnt give spell amp anymore

No i mean convent all going dmg to 10% pure. This should be nice dps item. I mean all dealing dmg. Troll pa etc. Idk but icant expeess my new item idea due my my lack of endlandsky.

It's garbage. I don't see a reason to get it on any hero, not to mention "abusing it".

the only reason it's not great is that it doesnt build into shit

valve gonna build it into sny so it might be good on some right clickers that also do insane spell damage who knows

it's so fucking good on storm, i'll build it right after bloodstone

does the mana cost reduction apply on the % on the ult, too?

^Orchid gives more dmg, more INT, mana regen & Silence on top of it. Why would u delay it for this shit item?

no but it removes the nerf which he got in 6.85

nobody talks about it, but KAYA synergizes with Bloodstone, which will provide 10% more mana supply, which is HUGE in a new system. Both Srotm and tinker are going for kaya now

pretty sure Orchid gives you less DPS than Kaya as Storm. 10% spell amplification is HUGE.

^Orchid gives AS & more INT, not to mention u get dmg from it's active. There is no way Kaya does more dmg lol. How can 10% spell amp gives more dmg than 35% amplification from orchid from all sources. Kaya is also a dead end item & Orchid upgrades into one of the best late game items.

^ Don't forget it's also one of the most easily purged debuff items in DotA..... Kaya is not going to be dispelled and you will benefit from the bonuses 100% of the time as there's no active.