While ns aghs on his own is amazing, i feel rhat building it is highly situational, in general it too hard for him to build it and he wants to get utility fast. Things like urn, crest and so on have priority in most of the times
Also what about nyx? Thats one strong ability
As a position 5 supp player, building at least a point booster is a dream come true.
Anyway, I agree with KOTL in the top list. Maybe include Centaur and Pugna?
Meme aghs build is WK haha.
Kotl and Centaur are certainly amazing holders of aghs, if they can get it they should always go for it
Nyx also has one of the best aghs, but he wants utility before, if he can get that it's great similar sith night stalker, but he usually don't have the chance to get it
I'd say magnus got the shittiest aghs upgrade but if they'd return the splash on empower I might reconsider it as situational
nyx assassin is probably one of the best in the game
treant is very good if you can farm it
weaver is the most broken in the game imo, doesnt fit the item build of pos 1 where he's mostly played.
ogre magi is useless
bane is bad
spirit breaker useless
ogre magi useless?
Yes, a 2nd stun that can further trigger your ult chances, not to mention the fact that you can use it even with zero mana pool.
3253
Solo MMR
AH, should have seen this first, wouldn't bother to comment.
The best scepter in the game is NIMBUS. A spell that gives you a chance to respond globally with a relatively short cooldown, can cancel tp's and disrupt enemy combo's with ministun. If you are smart, you can even solo kill enemy carries with it.
This might be a good place for you to start:
There was an older one for 6.88 and this one hasn't been updated to 7.07, but it's still pretty good for reference. Obviously it's all about perspective and differs based on the roles/heroes one will play, but it's still a fun discussion to be had.
I like it on Phoenix. But it is a high risk play. You have to use it only when you know the egg will survive. Refresher+Ahgs can turn the game if used in the right circumstances.
wooow 4k sea smurf
a stun that takes 60% of you current mana you mong oloid how is a 4200 gold item worth this ability
I don't think we're comparing aghs to other aghs but saying which ones are good and which are bad.
The only cores I can think of offhand are invoker and wr who always build aghs. Tinker is close, usually builds it.
Supports is tricky because some of their aghs are amazing but they still don't build them much like witch drs is really good, can wipe teams, but he's often a 5th position and needs other items and can't afford it. Same with CM, disruptor a little less so but still good.
Sniper's aghs is terrible.
OD's is pretty shit. It's good for a support OD, but if you have a support OD, you're not winning. Maybe if Alchemist gives it to you.
if you are a mid silencer who is snowballing aghs is funny. Get sheep with moonshard and youll kill pretty much anyone before sheep is over. I'm sad though, glaives got a big nerf
the best aghs are, in terms of how core they are to the respective hero:
KOTL, number 1
invoker number 2
idk if u guys understand that cent aghs is kinda average considering how many times they nerfed it
the rest gets rlly unsure
skywrath, zeus, nyx, pugna are close by
it gets super blurry when comparing all the highly mediocre and shitty aghs
Maybe Centaur's Aghs is situational because he can buy another tanky/utility item, but it is still good.
Meme aghs, Jugg's. +3 slashes and reduced CD. Get lvl 25 +6 slashes, and every 70 seconds you have 18 slashes for maximum luls. Get refresher to add to it. It's a steroid version of jugg's build before his attack speed rework
I hope OP and guy talking about empower for Magnus remember that Magnus aghs was reworked to make shockwave hit twice by returning back to Magnus.
Most useless ones would be alarm and CK imo. For CK if you are farmed you always want make illusions of yourself given that CK builds stat items mostly anyway and they also get the lifesteal gain ona critical hit. The cooldown was nerfed by an extra 15 seconds so it’s now a 35 second cooldown reduction rather than 20 seconds so it’s “comparatively” better than last patch, but the shitty stats of an aghs are in no way worth his aghs upgrade just being a 35 second cooldown. An octarine core takes it to the same cooldown and also gives faster chaos bolt and reality rift (not to mention manta, bkb, BoTs etc) so you may as well build that if you need a shorter down time.
Slarks one is also useless. 60 second cooldown is short enough to use his ultimate every gank/team fight and not worry about saving it. Conversely 30 seconds is too long for it to be used more than once in a single team fight. The extra ability (hiding enemies in smoke for 3 seconds) is so rarely going to occur/save anyone it might as well not exist. Slarks ulti is so he can finish off an enemy without him being cced or to survive and run away from a gank or to regen like 25% in the middle of a team fight. If as a pos 1 you’re not using for one of these reasons but to instead save another less important hero meaning you won’t have it available for those reasons above when you do need it. The range is only like 350 anyway (half the standard range of a ranged hero) so it’s not a big AoE. Other than that it does nothing. 30 second cooldown and a change to his skill that is useless 99/100 times your ulti would be used.
Icefrog seriously needs to rethink the aghs on some carries because if they are going to take the bad stats of an aghs over the better stats and/ability granted by another item it had to be worth it in far more situations.
Eg something which actually could be good for slark is something like gives pounce 3 charges and applies an aoe effect so any heroes in 200 range etc are leashed and adds extra range. Then you can use it to both initiate and have a back up as an escape.
Talking about
forgot that x and y even had an aghs upgrade
Sven, tiny, kunkka, beastmaster, dk, huskar, brewmaster, io, centaur, bristle, elder titan, earth spirit, phoenix, axe, slardar, doom, spirit breaker, lycan, undying, abaddon, underlord, morphling, venge, riki, ta, luna, bh, naga, troll, ember, mk, fv, pa, viper, clinkz, brood, slark, medusa, arc warden, storm, lina, jakiro, silencer, oracle, bane, dp, dazzle, leshrac (forgot that this hero exists), ds, batrider, od, sd, ww.
DK, Lycanthrope, wisp, slardar, TA, troll, ember, mk, pa, clinkz, brood, arc warden and DP don't have Aghs. A rather large amount of people seem to assume that DP has one though.
Eg over the last month DP ended the game with aghs about 8000 times - https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/death-prophet/items
Slark has had it built 7400 times - https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/slark/items
Shows you what people think of aghs on slark. A hero with no fucking upgrade gets it built more often.
If you looked at the link I provided, you'd see there are quite a few parameters to consider when rating an Aghs upgrade for a hero. Things like whether that hero can farm the item itself in an average length game. Even GPM talents and skills modifying talents that are associated with the Aghs upgrade come into picture.
Also, just because a hero always buys Aghs, doesnt mean it's necessarily good. Sometimes it has no better choice.
Eg. Windranger
Sven aghs is actually really strong but it rarely fits with team. The team has to draft around using it basically, otherwise it's wasted dmg and better if sven just builds more dmg for himself.
I forgot about drow aghs, that's borderline core with mjollnir.
I really like tidehunters aghs but no way it's close to core.
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What aghanims effect is top teir for you guys?
My list
(good every game)
Kotl of the light
Nightstalker
Vision is good every game
My personal meme list
Look ma no hands Gyro
Matryoshka Lifestealer
Pinball Lich
Dogshit tier:
I dont think there is but fee free to add to the discussion. Maybe Magnus:\