General DiscussionHave been watching some VHS and Normal Dota

yes

The gap between each medal is "very different" back then I think it's just that they have the same skills, but no.

An ancient player is more skilled than a legend player and better understanding of the game, and the lower the medal the more noober it gets but the higher the medal the more high skilled/same skill it gets after divine.

After divine all you need to climb is better understanding of the game not some mechanical shit.

Mainly I was devastated seeing one Immortal Treant spammer playing. He did feed him self like 10 times with no gain. He know enemy have sentry but still did initiate in low hp to die etc...

In Normal skill U rarely see anyone so stupid. Ofc he might be in tilt or having stroke or something and that's why he build all wrong skills and played like LoL player. Sadly their team still won and that made me ask if they all 10 were acc buyers or skill caps are no more

yeah mulli, immortal players are worse than u.
i mean, its understandable, poor ppl who cant get rich, calling richs thieves,
crusaders who cant get immortal, calling immortals acc buyer.

10k behavior score still get matched up with Russians who grief and abandon just to ruin your calib games
🤡

@Kowareta

Sadly when I watch Treant games I usually see pretty shit playing done by Immortals. I would love to learn something new from these games but usually all I learn is how they are very poor to play TP

normal skill is literally playing versus passive bots for me. You've never played immortal level games, so how can you even have an opinion you dumb-ass cow

^Yes I have played Imm/divine games.

Really it is no surprise if I would not learn anymore about TP playing by watching some mediocre VHS TP players which might have 100-500h TP history.

I have thousands of hours TP experience so maybe it is normal to be better than someone with under 1000h

so why are you still at normal skill then?

That is the point of this thread "skill caps" is there some?

yes, normal skill players don't understand their skills heroes and weaknesses realistically. you might understand it on paper, but not be able to execute properly. things like positioning, itemization, checking enemy items to build items that counter what they're building, is all something you need to be 'good' at the game. playing the same builds over and over and expecting things to change don't make you good. you have to adapt, or die.

you must also think through the ways you're going to die based on the enemy line-up. you must think it through before it happens and prevent it from happening.

In my opinion people raise in mmr because they begun to play "right hero" then they spam it until they hit wall. Then they find another "right hero" spam until hit wall.

After all they are pretty much same player but higher mmr after some spamming. Does this sound familiar?

you must also think through the ways you're going to die based on the enemy line-up. you must think it through before it happens and prevent it from happening.

I see a lot of Immortal players dying bec they can't do this math. As I said in the example of TP player higher in the thread.

When people are playing their personal peak DotA, they can perform approximately 1 bracket above them, (give or take, this isn't an exact science by any means, just throwing out approximations for the sake of discussion.) So an Ancient player when they're on fire can absolutely compete in a Divine level game, however if you average out their performances over time, it's clear that the Divine player is in that bracket as they perform competently far more consistently.

Consistency is everything when it comes to ranking up, as it's all about pushing that winrate slightly higher, (you only need to be rocking a 51%+ winrate to see a steady increase in MMR.)

Sure you may have seen an Immortal player do dumb shit, there's never a period in DotA where you don't see dumb shit, it's a game that is (currently,) impossible to play perfectly so the deciding factors are the mistakes of players and how the other team reacts to said mistakes. These high level players make fewer mistakes and are much better at recognizing when the enemy makes them and appropriately reacting to said mistakes.

Seeing people make mistakes is easy, that's why people at every bracket whine about their teammates perceived shittiness. Of course, it only takes a moment of critical thought to realize that if you were so much better, you wouldn't be matched with said allies. You're exactly where you deserve to be until you start performing better. The best way to see through this instinctual self-defense mechanism is to just watch your own games. You'll start seeing your own mistakes left, right and center.

Also, if you watch very high level DotA and all you derive from it are seeing the fuck ups of the players without seeing all of the things they're doing that makes them that much better/more consistent of a player than you, then you should focus on watching lower level matches as you lack the holistic game knowledge to be able to comprehend the actions/thought processes of the highest level players.

Honestly the vast majority of your posts Mulli seem less about wanting to improve and more about you seeking justification from the community as to why skill brackets are meaningless/why you're being held back and can't rise in rank. Your mentality around the game seems terrible if you actually want to improve.

If I would like to get more mmr I would play meta heroes and not this totally shit TP

I just see very little left to improve as TP. Some Macro decision making about my positioning might be still left to learn to be PRO =D

I'm just frustrated because I wish to learn from watching VHS TP but I find no wisdom there at all.

Hardest part of low mmr games for Treant is inconsistent games so U can't really play full support

edit. have watched some lower level TP too. Nothing to gain really. :(

So is it possible to be full learnt TP-player and still normal skill?

Your confirmation bias is completely blinding you. All you're doing is looking for evidence to confirm that you have indeed reached peak Treant Protector play, and that because there is no way to improve with your favorite hero it's unrealistic to gain rank playing it. Your whole attitude strikes me as a defense mechanism to avoid admitting that you actually have tons to improve upon. You trying to externalize the problem and blame it on your preferred hero is just an excuse to avoid facing the truth- your faults are your own, not the hero's; the rank you play at is the one you currently deserve.

At your level you can play literally any hero, and if you're applying Divine+ level micro/macro gameplay decisions you will gain rank.

https://youtu.be/qP2t_NhCtPY

Here is a video by DotA Alchemy, (highly recommended, I applied many lessons I learned from them on my climb from low A7 to D4.) Jenkins is talking about how Treant is rocking a 54% WR in the top level pubs, and goes on to talk about how his many many buffs over time and a shift in playstyle have pushed him into an excellent position.

Yet, here you are, a Crusader player telling me you've pushed your Treant Protector to the highest possible level and have nothing to learn from other players. Are you starting to understand how absolutely ridiculous you sound? Your claim is childish at best and delusional at worst.

So u are saying my thousands of hours experience about TP is all void. I have learnt nothing really about TP and I'm where I deserve

^^ What he said is factsss, ur just thinking because u have so many hours in ur TP gameplay u think you've perfected it. Theres always room for improvement.

first, as a guy who played and laned with your treant, im gonna say it buddy, u are not good. sry. you are not playing like immortal, u are more like archon treant player.

In my opinion people raise in mmr because they begun to play "right hero" then they spam it until they hit wall. Then they find another "right hero" spam until hit wall.

here is win rates in low tier. So it is not really meta

here is low tier meta heroes

So point seems to be that I'm retard who can't master hero even using 5000h to learn it because TP is great hero and I'm just shit

well, personally i rather check divine+ winrates for meta

it's not meta because low tiers don't know how to coordinate and games go on forever and heroes like PA are better.

Here is my win rates in current patch as Treant and WK which I play core and have 3 times less time used to learn how to play it

So here is WK which I think I'm mediocre

Here is Treant which I think I'm tap out in learning

wow you must be really good at the hero, you should spam him to immortal since you're so good

META is depended the environment u are! There is no universal META across all brackets

@rofl TY finally u see it

@Kowareta still u have the best performance with this cow and he is shit =D

edit. maybe u need to check facts and only facts! Stop living in "Moon is larger than Sun world" it is 2019

Ofc if there is something to learn about TP as hero I would love to learn it so pls contribute some wisdom if u posses it for share

META is depended the environment u are! There is no universal META across all brackets

anyway talking with u is pointless, u rather put the blame on everything except urself.

Ofc if there is something to learn about TP as hero I would love to learn it so pls contribute some wisdom if u posses it for share

the more u learn the less u know
but for mulli, he is best treant player with 800 games and he is still crusader
this delusions man
u can beat parma in being delusional and autisitc buddy.

3200 games , crusader 3. Worst thing about all of you crusader/archon/legend animals is that you dont want to listen when higher skilled player is explaining to you. I have a friend who is 2k mmr,and it is so painful explaining things to someone who thinks that he is right and dont want to hear critics. Bruh

@Kowareta U promised to play 10 games as Treant with your 2,5k smurf so I can learn but u have not delivered it. Please do so I can learn

@nidza feel free to play 2k mmr games as Treant and share your wisdom to me. Can u pls play 10 games as Treant in 2k and share games to me so I can learn

edit. not just 3200 games but 10000h of dota =D

Dude in 2k mmr i will play him as pos 1 ,2 ,3 ,4, 5 and will stomp 90% games with him. in 2k i can win with any hero on any position,literally.

^that sounds good pls play 10 games as Treant pos 5 and share your wisdom to community and me

edit. I'm eager to see your performance and wisdom

I'm happy to see your games even if u end up under 60% win rate just to learn from u

I wont,cuz u are trash 2k arrogant motherfcker. bye

^I'm sad my teacher dumb me

Ooh my teacher had 0 games as Treant but he is Divine mmmm must be good Treant player anyway. Pls come to teach me someday o'almighty divine teacher

I know everyone of u guys would get cancer in 2k when playing Treant as support so I'm not surprised why no one want to do it

YES MULLI U ARE RIGHT

So you ask for advice from qualified, good players, and then you deny them altogether while claiming that you're already good at the game and have nothing to improve on.

Alright bro. We can definitely see why you're stuck in your bracket. Don't bother asking for help if you're just going to act like an ignorant kid.

I'm open to advises for Treant play! Just coach me or play 2k games by your self and share those games to me so I can learn

My problem is not to raise medal it is about playing Treant from 384 mmr to Immortal top 1

edit. so raising medal by Treant