General DiscussionWhy don't top level timbersaw players get aghs on timber?

aghs is litearlly only a damage item but timbers entire kit already has enough damage for most games

It is what item vs agh would be better. Basically agh and blademail gives timber the most dmg out of any other item you can find. Items like shiva's or bloodstone help timber survive a lot better, especially if the opposing team have stuns and burst damage. However, in lower level pubs, they usually cant kill timber in a stun duration, causing a full dmg timber to be more useful in teamfights. More dmg usually translates into more kills and you will be able to snowball.

not enough mana u alway have to go for bloodstone first If u want to go agh 2nd item

timber deals damage by staying alive so he can cast more spells, you dont need to buy another spell to deal more damage.

^^He actually does very little damage. The thing is that his dmg is pure, so even though it is very little, it is still very reliable. Thus he does not far well against those with low armor and low magic resistance.

Only works if there are scarier damage output heroes on your team. Otherwise they just focus you, and you’re not really that survivable because guess what, you skipped out on euls or lotus to get that aghs.

+ to the notion that you need mana regen first. Without mana regen but with aghs you're just gonna run out of spell juice and instead of dealing more damage you will be dealing none.

Question is his shard useless or what?

not ur job most of the time

i buy aghs on timber but after hood and bs and shivas

^^He actually does very little damage.

What a load of nonsense, he outputs 1000 pure damage every 8 seconds, there is no other hero in the game who outputs that much pure damage

To simply answer OP's question: He doesn't really need it that much and there are cheaper items that he actually needs. Meaning if you are only relying on your Timbersaw to do enough damage in fights, you either don't have a reliable carry or he/she is not doing their job correctly.

However, people tend to buy the shard as it amps up damage a bit but also provides an annoying slow/cc ability + tankiness (by making them run away from you)

idk i feel like its really hard to take anyone here seriously when i see people unironically say timbersaw does very little damage.

idk if the shard is that good since it is just more damage, but they did buff the slow and the damage is good and its cheap so maybe its an alright purchase.

^^ Besides the heavy nukers like Lesharc and Zeus, other mages like Grim can deal up to 1485 magic dmg with his first 3 skills fully upgraded, Jakiro can deal 180 pure damage per sec with his ulti and lvl25 talent alone, and with agh he can deal 225 pure dmg per sec.

Timber can deal an additional 360 dmg with an addition of an extra chakram, that's about 36% more dmg. Now tell me which aghs can give your hero 36% more dmg? I know Jakiro is possibly one of them, but it would be nice if Jakiro have 2 charges on his ultimate instead.

So aghs is definitely a core on timbersaw. Those mana regen can be solved with regular clarities and with possible arcane ring or a soul ring. Holy Locket is also a good choice in beefing up his health and mana regen.

Aghs also gives timber health and mana pool, so it is certainly not a waste of gold. Your bloodstone and shivas would definitely take longer to farm.

timber doesn't need more damage, he is a tanky and mobile hero but without the super long cast range of smth like a zeus, so he deals more damage by being more survivable so he can live long enough to cast more spells, its literally the same way that heroes like leshrac, dp, necro, all function, its not that aghs is bad on timbersaw, its just not core, you only need it if you are already unkillable but ur team lacks damage which isnt usually the case since ur hero already does a shit ton of damage.

its really clear to me you dont even know what youre talking abt since u say things like "holy locket for mana regen" or trying to compare timbersaw to like zeus or grim or jakiro when these heroes don't play the game in the same way timber does.

even among other damage items for timbersaw, bloodstone is literally better 1 for 1, it gives more mana regen/spell amp so you can cast more spells and deal more damage, and it gives you more tankiness and healing so you survive better to cast more spells and deal more damage.

hood, euls, lotus, bloodstone are all way higher on the priority list, and once you have some of those items you can either buy more survivability items if you don't lack damage, or buy aghs/aghs shard/or maybe octarine or smth

why am i writing paragraphs abt this tho is the real questions zzzzzzz

As I have already stated, his pure damage is low, but is reliable in a way that ignores armor and magic resistance. Which part of that do you not understand? So you think 1k pure damage is enough to kill a support? Come on and be realistic. Timber's ulti is so shitty, you definitely need another ultimate. Try doubling the ultimate on other mages. They would be ridiculously unbalanced.

Of course you would say that oh its your team's job to do the rest of the damage. If that is the case, then why would your hero be targeted during teamfights? So you are like trying to build tank items, hoping that the enemy's team is stupid enough to waste their spells on you, so that your team can then finish off your opponents. Not that it is a wrong approach, but consider what happens during teamfights. If Timber is out of position, he does very minimal damage. The only damage that he can dish out at long range is his chakram. So aghs win in those scenarios. Even if he is in position to deal damage at close range, he usually does not go in alone. If the opponent over commits to kill Timber, you would have still done quite a lot of damage. As position 3, you would probably want to trade your life with those of position 1 or 2.

Bloodstone is good on Timber, also a core item in fact. The unfortunate thing is, it takes quite a long time to farm. A soul booster plus a kaya is still not better than an aghs. If your hero is having mana issues, you can get a kaya, then an aghs, then a bloodstone.

Even if you are on the losing team, and you are the only one defending the tower, you need 2 Chakrams and not one. You use one Chakram, the melee creeps still creep up to your tower and the opponent will have a much higher chance of breaking your towers than if you had 2.

Holy locket tops up charges every 15 sec that can be used for mana regen. Of course it is not a lot, but it is a viable upgrade from magic wand, with the option of saving your ally.

Additionally if you think you are having mana issues, you can leave your chakram at lvl2. 2 passes of lvl 2 chakram still does clear creep waves. So in the end the choice is yours. I think timber lacks dmg, you think otherwise, then go ahead.

I wouldn’t bring up ur 30% timbersaw win rate if you said literally anything of value but unfortunately p much everything you said is wrong, so idk why I’d listen to someone who’s lower mmr than me, less games on the hero and worse win rate and isn’t backed up by what any pro player is doing either. I actually have 0 reason to believe you.

timber need more sustain and mana, if you buy aghs you won't get enough money to buy other items, also if you buy aghs timber first item what the hell are you thinking you don't have mana to double chakram, even if you got enough mana to initiate but do you have the mana to run away? timber is made to make the enemy to overcommit, I think timber is great to have fast movement speed because if he got hit a lot and he can run away with low HP and the enemy still chasing you can bait them and punish the chaser, I know he has his skill 2 to run away but that is to "run away" not baiting. so yeah he needs more HP and mana not aghs. PS: I think the eternal shroud is overrated, not all games fit of buying that item pls think again before buying it.

This post just full of sub 6k mmr shitters with a retarded opinion.
Aghs is trash as 2nd item gid gud dogs

^^Trash to you, a gem for others. Probably as a third item after kaya might be better. By the way, timber is trash now. His skills are too slow to keep in pace with the game.

Timber is trash axaxaxax APE SHITSTROKE PLAYER ALL U DO IS PRESS Q ON WAVE 156 TIMES PER GAME.

>timber trash
>over 50% wr in relevant bracket

I recommend going aghs on timber only if you’re playing him mid or you absolutely destroy the off lane. Even when you do go for aghs tho, you need euls, bloodstone, and sometimes lotus first.