Maybe so, unfortunately they rarely all play together. Dignitas does have 3 or 4 and occasionally even all 5 of them together pubstomping. You can see the result in Universe and Aui_2000 scores at #3 and #9. Other teams also do it, but not much.
Dendi pretty much always plays pubs without other Navi teammates so he has only 1 top 50 score. The same sort of pattern holds for most pro players. When they do pubstomp, they do it with friends who are mediocre to bad and just try to have some fun.
Maglevganktrain and Chains Stack are both excellent teams who can and do beat full pro teams in pubs and in minor tournaments as well. Chains Stack had a great series against IG back when IG was on their undefeated run and almost took them out. If the "sailor moon" stack could agree on their personal goals and get along enough to make a new pro team in 3 or 4 months of pro-play it would be as good as teams going to TI3. That stack is the one I think is currently the best in the world. I've seen them beat [A]lliance. Of course, in a best of 3 or best of 5 [A]lliance would probably still be better at this point...but they really can lane and teamfight against the top players in the world and outplay them a fair % of the time.
There are a lot of pub players who have the same level of talent as the pros, but that has to be developed and you need to find a group who can work together...and get sponsors and commit. That is really the hard part.
Um...all current pro players started out as pub players. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that. It like laughing at the idea that best college basketball or football or baseball players are the next pros.
The best amateurs are always the next pros it really can't work any other way. Pro players did not magically appear from nowhere. I played against people like 1437, universe, fear, and aui_2000 in pub games years ago. They were not as polished then are they are now, but you could already see their talent in a regular pub game.
At some point the best pubs either join a pro team or group up to make a new one. That is how it works. The most recent example to really succeed is Artyk (now sponsored by Denial) who went from a pub stack to a sponsored pro team in 2-3 months of playing into tournaments.
The main thing holding back the creation of half a dozen new pro teams right now is a lack of sponsor $$$. I predict that after TI3 more advertisers will get into the game and several new pro teams will be created. Probably these will incorporate some players from teams that did not do well at TI3 and broke up afterwards along with some of the most talented amateurs.
"Calculated from DotaBuffPlus top50 scores on every hero"
I simply added up all the top50 scores for each player to make a combined score. There are really 5100 scores earned by nearly 4k different accounts. Some of the accounts are the same players, but I didn't count that. If someone used two accounts I gave each one a separate total score.
hey ive been playing on euro west a lot since last terrible 70 minute queue matchmaking patch
there are a lot more higher rated stacks there
theyre also not nearly as good as the people on us east/west
they play much differently than those people too, they tend to teamfight and try to gank a lot and end early but they're not good or disciplined enough to do it well (in general)
Any action, whether shooting a free throw in basketball, catching a pass in American football, passing the ball in volleyball, hitting a baseball...any action can be practiced.
Its possible to practice good technique, its possible to practice for speed...but at some point you are going to get close to your maximum potential and no amount of extra practice will make you significantly better, faster, or more accurate.
In the case of "clicking on an small moving target with a mouse at a precise time" every serious experienced dota player is already so close to their maximum potential that they are not going to improve much no matter what they do. If you have played 1000+ dota games then you have already done 1 million+ attempts to perform a mouse click. Most actions athletes perform never reach into the millions because they simply take to long to perform and the opportunity to execute them does not occur millions of times.
The few that do, like dribbling a basketball...become so easy and natural a good point guard does not need to think about it any more than breathing.
And so in the same way if you watch an extremely talented player on a replay at 0.25 speed you will see they will move their mouse so fast and precisely in everything they do....you will know that you can't do that. It's not that you can't because you didn't want to enough or didn't know to try it...you can't because the connection between your fingers and eyes and brain is just not good enough to be that fast and perfect.
Rarely I will find someone who is bad at dota with excellent mouse control, their problem is nearly always a combination of being a newb and being arrogant so they don't learn and never admit that their mistakes are their own fault. But in nearly every other case of someone who cannot win over 50% of their games consistently (and this is fully half of all dota players) the reason is they are just too slow. When it comes to the important gank or teamfight, someone else stuns them first because the other player was faster to click on them.
Now if you find that you are slow (and nearly everyone will find themselves against people to fast for them at some point) there are things you can do to get an advantage.
First you can play on the closest sever. If your time to click is 0.5 seconds and the other guy is at 0.4...an extra 0.1 on the ping will even it out. But the best players time to click is nearly 0.1 seconds anyway...that's why The International is on a LAN to even it out.
2nd you should use every vision advantage you can. If you attack from invisiblity your being slow matters little. IF you attack from fog or from smoke you can dramatically reduce the time the enemy has to react.
3rd you can use heroes who are easier for slow players...play heroes that have fewer active skills and more passives, fewer targetable skills and more aoe.
4th you can use items that are easier for slow players...get items with stats and passives. These items are typically less powerful for the gold, but if you can't use your orchid, hex, medallion, dagon, and micro your necro units while still casting your spells all in the 2-3 second window you have to do it correctly....what's that point in having them? Just get passive items or one click items like bkb and drums.
5th try to avoid situations where you are reactive. Jump on the enemy first. Don't wait for them to decide when the fight starts. If you wait you will be to slow. If you get to decide when to attack you can at least prepare mentally what to click.
Finally don't get upset about the fact that other players are better than you and always will be. Instead just have fun and do the best you can. Few people perceive the game "at full speed in real time" while playing to know what the heck happened anyway. If you want to really know you have to go back and watch the replay. If you do you will often find that what you thought happened in a fight is not really what happened because it was too fast for you to see it. That is why magicians work...almost no one has eyes fast enough to see what hand speed can really do.
SEA is much stronger than the US servers imo. I played on Very high consistently on US servers solo queuing but am now only on the border between High/Very High on SEA.
Minazuki, you play on USwest which is much weaker...similar to Russia and Brazil. USeast is nothing like USwest. Grouping them together is absurd. USeast has not only the strongest NA stacks it also gets about 1/3 of the strongest EU stacks.
@ Relentless, check my games before May, I played on both us east/west along with the occasional eu west when I was in America. Now that i'm in Asia, playing on us west is obviously much better in terms of ping lol though it still sucks ass
most decent us stacks play primarily on us west while often queuing us east and west though
while there's almost no eu stacks playing on us east except for some mixed anime girl stacks
prettysure vp or navi would shit on that stack cuz i see players from both of those teams in this list
Maybe so, unfortunately they rarely all play together. Dignitas does have 3 or 4 and occasionally even all 5 of them together pubstomping. You can see the result in Universe and Aui_2000 scores at #3 and #9. Other teams also do it, but not much.
Dendi pretty much always plays pubs without other Navi teammates so he has only 1 top 50 score. The same sort of pattern holds for most pro players. When they do pubstomp, they do it with friends who are mediocre to bad and just try to have some fun.
Maglevganktrain and Chains Stack are both excellent teams who can and do beat full pro teams in pubs and in minor tournaments as well. Chains Stack had a great series against IG back when IG was on their undefeated run and almost took them out. If the "sailor moon" stack could agree on their personal goals and get along enough to make a new pro team in 3 or 4 months of pro-play it would be as good as teams going to TI3. That stack is the one I think is currently the best in the world. I've seen them beat [A]lliance. Of course, in a best of 3 or best of 5 [A]lliance would probably still be better at this point...but they really can lane and teamfight against the top players in the world and outplay them a fair % of the time.
There are a lot of pub players who have the same level of talent as the pros, but that has to be developed and you need to find a group who can work together...and get sponsors and commit. That is really the hard part.
lol sponsors and commit for pubteams :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
i work (
also supercell owned by lowskill russian ))
A.D.T.O.Y a.k.a Chains BEST RUSSIAN PLAYER !
Um...all current pro players started out as pub players. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that. It like laughing at the idea that best college basketball or football or baseball players are the next pros.
The best amateurs are always the next pros it really can't work any other way. Pro players did not magically appear from nowhere. I played against people like 1437, universe, fear, and aui_2000 in pub games years ago. They were not as polished then are they are now, but you could already see their talent in a regular pub game.
At some point the best pubs either join a pro team or group up to make a new one. That is how it works. The most recent example to really succeed is Artyk (now sponsored by Denial) who went from a pub stack to a sponsored pro team in 2-3 months of playing into tournaments.
The main thing holding back the creation of half a dozen new pro teams right now is a lack of sponsor $$$. I predict that after TI3 more advertisers will get into the game and several new pro teams will be created. Probably these will incorporate some players from teams that did not do well at TI3 and broke up afterwards along with some of the most talented amateurs.
SEA DOTO BEST DOTO
stfu shurei
where do you see this? I have plus account and I cant find it anywhere
As I wrote in the first post -
"Calculated from DotaBuffPlus top50 scores on every hero"
I simply added up all the top50 scores for each player to make a combined score. There are really 5100 scores earned by nearly 4k different accounts. Some of the accounts are the same players, but I didn't count that. If someone used two accounts I gave each one a separate total score.
^ how long did that take you? :O
Relentless used to work for NASA so 5minutes should be accurate
Used excel to calculate? Or wrote a script?
Wouldnt a average heroscore prove more revealing in terms of player skill?
Obviously those in top of your list just have plenty of heroes.
I think its a lot more impressive to play many heroes excellently than just a couple.
Another way I've been considering comparing top players is to take something like #of heroes 10 games with KDA over 5.
hi im gay
@relentless: Some really nice tips/suggestions in this thread. So how does one go about improving their 'mouse play'?
hey ive been playing on euro west a lot since last terrible 70 minute queue matchmaking patch
there are a lot more higher rated stacks there
theyre also not nearly as good as the people on us east/west
they play much differently than those people too, they tend to teamfight and try to gank a lot and end early but they're not good or disciplined enough to do it well (in general)
Any action, whether shooting a free throw in basketball, catching a pass in American football, passing the ball in volleyball, hitting a baseball...any action can be practiced.
Its possible to practice good technique, its possible to practice for speed...but at some point you are going to get close to your maximum potential and no amount of extra practice will make you significantly better, faster, or more accurate.
In the case of "clicking on an small moving target with a mouse at a precise time" every serious experienced dota player is already so close to their maximum potential that they are not going to improve much no matter what they do. If you have played 1000+ dota games then you have already done 1 million+ attempts to perform a mouse click. Most actions athletes perform never reach into the millions because they simply take to long to perform and the opportunity to execute them does not occur millions of times.
The few that do, like dribbling a basketball...become so easy and natural a good point guard does not need to think about it any more than breathing.
And so in the same way if you watch an extremely talented player on a replay at 0.25 speed you will see they will move their mouse so fast and precisely in everything they do....you will know that you can't do that. It's not that you can't because you didn't want to enough or didn't know to try it...you can't because the connection between your fingers and eyes and brain is just not good enough to be that fast and perfect.
Rarely I will find someone who is bad at dota with excellent mouse control, their problem is nearly always a combination of being a newb and being arrogant so they don't learn and never admit that their mistakes are their own fault. But in nearly every other case of someone who cannot win over 50% of their games consistently (and this is fully half of all dota players) the reason is they are just too slow. When it comes to the important gank or teamfight, someone else stuns them first because the other player was faster to click on them.
Now if you find that you are slow (and nearly everyone will find themselves against people to fast for them at some point) there are things you can do to get an advantage.
First you can play on the closest sever. If your time to click is 0.5 seconds and the other guy is at 0.4...an extra 0.1 on the ping will even it out. But the best players time to click is nearly 0.1 seconds anyway...that's why The International is on a LAN to even it out.
2nd you should use every vision advantage you can. If you attack from invisiblity your being slow matters little. IF you attack from fog or from smoke you can dramatically reduce the time the enemy has to react.
3rd you can use heroes who are easier for slow players...play heroes that have fewer active skills and more passives, fewer targetable skills and more aoe.
4th you can use items that are easier for slow players...get items with stats and passives. These items are typically less powerful for the gold, but if you can't use your orchid, hex, medallion, dagon, and micro your necro units while still casting your spells all in the 2-3 second window you have to do it correctly....what's that point in having them? Just get passive items or one click items like bkb and drums.
5th try to avoid situations where you are reactive. Jump on the enemy first. Don't wait for them to decide when the fight starts. If you wait you will be to slow. If you get to decide when to attack you can at least prepare mentally what to click.
Finally don't get upset about the fact that other players are better than you and always will be. Instead just have fun and do the best you can. Few people perceive the game "at full speed in real time" while playing to know what the heck happened anyway. If you want to really know you have to go back and watch the replay. If you do you will often find that what you thought happened in a fight is not really what happened because it was too fast for you to see it. That is why magicians work...almost no one has eyes fast enough to see what hand speed can really do.
A-god wins mid on eu servers with 250+ping vs 50 ping
your points are invalid
how about me relentless
SEA is much stronger than the US servers imo. I played on Very high consistently on US servers solo queuing but am now only on the border between High/Very High on SEA.
thanks for the info
Minazuki, you play on USwest which is much weaker...similar to Russia and Brazil. USeast is nothing like USwest. Grouping them together is absurd. USeast has not only the strongest NA stacks it also gets about 1/3 of the strongest EU stacks.
Neo I don't know what your question is.
Never play on US west server, most of my lost games are there... Full of tards
You can't really compare Russia and Brazil @Relentless. There is a massive difference in skill there.
@ Relentless, check my games before May, I played on both us east/west along with the occasional eu west when I was in America. Now that i'm in Asia, playing on us west is obviously much better in terms of ping lol though it still sucks ass
most decent us stacks play primarily on us west while often queuing us east and west though
while there's almost no eu stacks playing on us east except for some mixed anime girl stacks
how points y get ?
many*
@karikki
what skill in russia and brasil ? :D
u maek fani joke
im a solo mmer get @ me lewl
dotabuff+ includes this top?
brasil should be banned from dota world, oh yes, I remeber then from old bnet and eurobattlenet times as well as ggc times.
Shittiest players ever playing with 250 latencies on EU servers? If you think that russians are bad, you don't remeber brasils...
Dotabuff+ has a top50 highscore for every hero. This was something I made as a composite of all the top50 hero highscores.
Relentless, is it possible to update the scores?
How is this about pubstomping? Aren't they just at the top 50 of heroes?
top5 :)