Unfavored Heroes: Why aren't they picked more often?
If you follow our blog posts, you may have realized by now that we focus on meta trends, specifically heroes that make a splash in either pub or pro games, or even both. We also tend to make the case for heroes who are so good that they should be considered in both pub and pro, and surely enough, Clinkz went on to become a situational pick in pro and a dominator in pub games.
But what about heroes who don’t make a splash anywhere? Heroes who are vastly unpicked in both scenes? They too are part of the meta trends--they just get the short end of the stick.
Morphling
In the early days of Dota 2, Morphling was a top pick in the scene. When few heroes were viable, Morphling stood out as a top tier carry, whose late game potential would almost always outweigh any weaknesses in the earlier stages of the game.
Unfortunately for him, for years now the meta has shifted more and more to have a balance in all stages of the game and if anything with a focus on the laning stage, certainly the current meta does so. Morphling isn’t a great early game hero, but he’s also not the worst. It’s not easy to kill him and he does have killing potential with a proper set up. His early-mid game is the actual weakness, where he, even with a Linken’s Sphere, doesn’t shine nearly as bright as other carries.
Icefrog has also indirectly acknowledged the hero’s lacking presence in both pub and pro play by buffing him in the recent patches, significantly lowering base attack time (3rd lowest in the game now) and increasing his Strength gain.
LFY’s Monet showed at MDL that Morphling is still a capable hero, especially when given space and time to farm. That said, LFY picked the hero last as a counter to LGD’s Medusa, knowing that there was not sufficient lockdown or damage to kill Morphling, even inside a Chronosphere.
It’s unlikely Morphling will return to being a top tier pick anytime soon, but he’s a very capable, albeit situational pick.
Pugna
Icefrog has always had issues balancing Pugna into the pro meta. Similar to heroes such as Bloodseeker, a simple change can make the hero be too strong. As an example, Life Drain has been changed 7 times since 6.79 alone, Nether Ward a total of 8 times since.
It’s difficult to strike a balance for a hero who is by nature rather situational and that pro and pub player alike try to find a proper lane for. Support Pugna, mid or even carry? There’s been a variety of attempts, but the hero has never really escaped a niche status and often times it was a specific team that liked playing the hero. Just a year ago, EHOME’s Sylar had established Pugna as a fearsome carry in their line-up, but a 45% win rate across 20 games wasn’t exactly trendsetting either.
Upon further inspection, Pugna does bring a lot of utility though and in theory, Pugna is a bit of a counter to many currently popular heroes. The likes of Troll Warlord, Anti-Mage or Faceless Void can be countered with Decrepify and Nether Ward is an excellent nuisance against popular mids such as Puck, Queen of Pain or even initiators like Sand King or Earthshaker.
All of Pugna’s potential upsides don’t seem to make up for the hero’s weaknesses however, at least for now. The hero remains squishy, slow [EDIT: read: often takes too long to come online fast enough], and overall needs more farm than a support usually has or doesn’t provide enough with the farm of a core. There are many opportunities for the hero to shine in certain strategies, as EHOME showed, but for now Pugna is sitting on the sidelines.
Lion
Lion and Shadow Shaman are often considered to be rather similar heroes, but rarely do they ever become popular at the same time.
This time around, Shadow Shaman shines in the meta, especially in China, and it is Lion who’s sitting on the sidelines. Both heroes provide a lot of lockdown, but Shadow Shaman has push potential and, thanks to recent buffs, a lot of harassing potential in the lane. Lion on the other hand has a lot of burst.
Lion was a top pick at the beginning of 2016 but slowly faded out as dedicated roamers took over and lane supports needed to provide more stability. In the current meta however, Lion should fit in quite nicely. He’s an excellent dual roamer, and while he doesn’t trade efficiently with most offlaners these days, he does provide sufficient lockdown and burst against many top tier cores. As Anti-Mage rises, perhaps Lion could rise with him a little bit as a small counter.
Undying
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Similar to Pugna, Undying has had a difficult time in the meta game. Small changes can make the hero feel too strong or too weak. In pub play, Undying is arguably among the most annoying heroes to play with, which makes balancing him even more difficult. No hero should enter Techies levels of annoyance after all.
Yet, for a while now, Undying has been so very niche that Icefrog has deemed it necessary to buff him over and over. Since 6.86c, Undying has received nothing but buffs, including significant ones as well with increased Intelligence gain (2.8, the highest among all Strength heroes alongside Bristleback) and Strength gain. The implementation of talents have also helped Undying become a much more suitable pick with necessary experience gain and additional Tombstone Zombie attack damage, making it easier for him to transition into the late game.
While strong on paper, Undying has remained a rather niche pick. Across 5 Majors and TI6, Undying has been picked only 48 times. This is by far better than what Pugna has to offer (11 picks), but it still goes to show that the hero is far from being what he could be: a consistently good situational pick. 8 picks on average per Valve event is not a lot, despite the hero having a lot to offer. Undying suffers due to a lack of flexibility--it’s rather difficult to play him as anything but a 4 position--and a lack of midgame presence. Current 4 position supports set up kills all around the map and pose a threat, like Sand King or Earthshaker. Undying is a strong teamfighter, but he doesn’t exactly instill fear when he goes missing.
Tiny
Tiny is a strong core hero with a lot of magic burst who can almost kill any hero in the early to mid game and still transition perfectly into the lategame as a right-click carry. With the right supports, Tiny can even be a strong laner with high killing potential. So why isn’t he picked?
Well, any hero could sound rather perfect when broken down to these simple characteristics. Yes, Tiny does have a lot of magic burst and yes he can kill most heroes with a combo, but he’s notoriously low on mana and investing into actual mana items early on is ill-advised in most cases, as it significantly slows down his right-clicking item build. If kills are a sure thing, investing into Arcane Boots and then an Aether Lens is not a bad idea, but with items such as Infused Raindrops or Glimmer Cape, it becomes increasingly more difficult to justify any mana items on Tiny.
Tiny’s laning potential is quite significant, but with -1 base armor and 285 base MS, Tiny is susceptible to ganks and harassment and generally needs a babysitter, which is why the Tiny+Io combo has been so popular for years. Io solves virtually all issues Tiny has. That doesn’t mean Tiny isn’t strong by himself though. Faceless’ Black^ has proven time and time again that the hero can work by himself and as a core hero, it’s an excellent counter pick to an already squishy and vulnerable line-up. Even if Black^ is not at The International, there are several other notably Tiny players, perhaps enough to see a few more Tiny picks.
Not trendy != bad
If a hero isn’t trending in the pro scene, it doesn’t mean that they’re bad by any means. Underlord has been virtually unpicked since his release (partly due to immediate nerfs), but the hero still dominates in very high skilled pubs.
The pro meta is an ever changing tapestry as pros change their minds and opinions on certain heroes at any given time. Even if no balance patch occurs, several heroes can phase in and out of the meta. Perhaps one of the heroes listed above could make a surprise splash at The International.
third.
Why chen isnt on the list. It is literally ded hero. Even visage gets pick but 10 yirs since some1 picked chen in comp. no need to mention pubs
Pugna sure is squishy but he definitely isn't slow. He starts with a base MS of 335. Add a windlace and boots of speed on top of that and you get a MS of 400. He can really kite against a lot of heroes with that
did you guys just say that pugna is SLOW?????????????????????????????????????
check his fucking movement speed, good luck chasing a pugna
EDIT: Rofl the guy above me beat me to it.
Pugna slow lul
Does this mean Arc Warden is viable in the pro scene if he's not mentioned here?
Pugna slow??
slow pugna?!!!
Regarding pugna being slow, the author probably means that he doesn't come online fast enough. Except in the rare situations where the enemy team can't counter him.
Pugna certainly needs more farm than other supports, but you can't really play him as a core either. If you do, half his spells are kind of terrible to have on a core. Reduce the mana cost on high nether blast levels, increase decrepify slow, then he might be viable. The low cooldown is useless when you can't actually spam, and pulling off a single decrep nether combo uses more mana than his ult.
Also, the raindrop really is OP. It needs a rework.
I think author wanted to say that pugna is SLOW,because to be usefull in the game she needs to have some levels in Q,W,E and to have at least agh for R.(which takes time,slow to be useful in the game,think bout other heroes,they need to have some 3-5 lvls and can be menace)
Till that,she is kinda useless,cant save a carry (decrepify should be maxed,and still wont save),cant make much damage(needs to decrepify the enemy,come close(which will cause a 70% death in almost every situation)and pop Q)
Best thing pugna can do,is to do the combos,like.
Atos+decrepify+mystic flare/reaper's scythe/etc
Were abusing hardlane with my friend with pugn+necro combo not so long ago.
Still may be,still may be.
Besides,pugna is hell of fun to play :D
pugna is not a 'she' dumb ass....also time to dish out 1/3/5/7 day bans to people spamming 1st and 2nd in comments...also look at the number of 1k scrubs getting their titties in a bunch over 'slow' pugna
it's because people only watch what is trending in youtube they don't even know what's that hero can do
suppaa pusher pugna, By good positioning pugna is a great hero. As winter wy.
because everyone wants to be an AGI CARRY
@I Am A Traitor No One Doe...
The atos seems like a smart pickup for pugna, but this only adds to the number of items necessary for the hero to pull off that burst combo. Do you get it after your blue boots but before aghs? Does it replace aether? You're probably going to want a force staff or blink for that too.
By the time you get all the positioning items purchased to make pugna scary, pugna's skills won't be doing enough damage to enemy heroes. The build I described essentially makes pugna into meepo, but all meepo needs to do this combo is a blink. It just doesn't seem like it's worth trying to hamfist him into that role when he does better at being a tower burner that discourages anything but a full defense (something pugna still isn't very effective at).
chen is dead since Dota 1
poor chen
so many idiots here that never join the forum
i'm sad
I really wish Tiny will be buffed someday
(not that kind of buff "7.06e Toss can now target spell immune enemies")
So now 1 2 3 is allowed?
most of comments dont have blue star.
Hey admin, remove all the "first, second, third comments"
No mention of Arc Warden by the way?
ofc arc is viable, do u even watch pro games?
1st!!!!!!!!!!!! xDDdDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDddddddddddddaSDasdajs
Morphling is pretty viable right now as a support.
Arc is viable, proof is my profile.
the pro scene is pretty weird right now, the meta just changes so randomly. Other half of tournament is filled with gank lineups and suddenly the meta changes into some kind of turtle/split push heavy games
The direct AND indirect nerfs to Morphling's mana and intelligence is what killed him especially in this faster-paced meta. That's all.
He literally has no early to mid game.
The thing that annoys me the most about this post is the part where the author failed to mention Tiny suffered a massive nerf in 7.00. His craggy exterior no longer stuns ranged heroes. That is what killed Tiny. In the past, some Clinkz would gank you with his fast orchid but he would stun himself for almost two seconds because he got too close so you just ran away with your superior almost 400 movement speed. By the time Clinkz caught up to you, you could just hurl rocks at him and throw him into the air, crush all his bones in the process, and then flame him in all chat with a simple yet effective "?". Now, any ranged hero can destroy Tiny because they cannot trigger craggy exterior under any circumstances.
Still fast-paced dota dominates. But the game is getting more and more balanced every patch and certain 4 protect 1 lineups become more viable.
Doom rn is so unpopular the op forgot to mention it
Doom was indirectly buffed with the removal of lowered respawn times as talents. Your 150 second cooldown spell will ensure someone stays dead for longer than 20 seconds now.
I did mean to say that the hero just doesnt come online soon enough with "slow". One of those cases where it didn't even occur to me that it could be read in a different way (even though ofc the "different way" in this case was the actual, more obvious one).
Longview
Wow, one misread and the entire chat goes crazy over 'slow' Pugna and only discusses that hero to no end. I miss seeing Morphling and Tiny though. Even singsing admitted on stream that hero is garbage when he randomed it, and its his most played hero.
Yeah the talent trees really opened up Morphling as a support.
10 - 200 mana
15 - Cooldown reduction
20 - movement speed +25
25 - both are good
he is a great support, tanky, 4.25 second stun every 8.5 seconds, good escape with waveform and replicate, can replicate heroes with radiance or strong auras, does not require much gold, and his scepter is great with the right team comp.
the big downside is his early game is absolutely horrible, with no real harass.
What i do is i just stack the jungle for the carry and pull. As soon as I get level 5 I have the 3.25 second stun which is great for setup for kills. At level 7 with the 4.25 second stun you need to be stunning everything you can until they get linkins or bkb which makes you kind of useless until you get force staff.
You need to almost have another support or an offlaner type core in the safelane while you pull and stack.
Tiny's level 10 talent (+14 int) which is 210 mana together with Arcane Boots on one of his teammates should be enough mana in the early - mid game to one-shot at least two hereos
cuz they are trash that's why
@~Hyatt
In a pub this works just fine but in a pro match I don't think there has ever been a situation that called for a late game support. Stacking is less important than ganks right now and you still have the problem that hitting 5 is journey enough for a support, but hitting 10 feels like an eternity sometimes.
On top of that, a 4.25 stun is great when you are solo killing (as a carry or off morphling is wont to do), but as a support it will often be overkill. Why not grab something that will provide more utility than wasted stun time?
Still, if I were a morph player (or a capable support player) I'd try the crap out of this.
meanwhile leshrac is crying in a corner like a little b***h!
what do you mean chen hasn't been picked in 10 years, puppey and handsken played it in the last few months.